Vol. 10 · pages 266–270

249 LABOUR POLICY OF GOVERNMENT OF INDIA of insubordination of misconduct which calls for disciplinary action the employer may dismiss his employee without obtaining the permission of the tribunal. To that there is undoubtedly one exception and that exception is that in case of insubordination or misconduct which calls for disciplinary action the employer may dismiss his employee without obtaining the permission of the tribunal. Now, Sir, I do not think that this particular provision which permits an employer to get rid of an employee who has misconducted himself or who is insubordinate can be a ground for complaint. N. M. Joshi: Who is to judge ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I should like to ask Mr. Joshi, who judges in ordinary cases where the Tribunal does not become operative ? In the way in which our industry is organised it is the employer who has rightly or wrongly the right to dismiss a worker whom he thinks is of no service to him. Therefore I think there is no point in that. But what I wanted to inform the House, and Mr. Joshi particularly, is that in order that there may be no abuse of this provision we have amended the Ordinance in two important particulars. The first thing that we did and that was done expressly at the desire of Mr. Joshi was to constitute advisory committees to be associated with the tribunal. On these advisory committees there are representatives of labour, and I have not the slightest doubt that with the help of these advisory committees, constituted as they are, they will be able to bring to the attention of the Tribunal such cases which they have reason to believe are due to victimisation. The second and the most important step which has now been taken is this. We have now issued an order calling upon the Chairman of the Tribunal to place on record his reasons for not allowing an employee to resign or to quit his job. This is a provision which we have borrowed from the Criminal Procedure Code, so that at the centre of the Government it would be possible for us to know whether there were legitimate and proper grounds, for the Chairman of the Tribunal not permitting an employee to resign his job. Sir, Mr. Joshi then proceeded to point out that the conditions in coal mines were not very satisfactory. I do not claim that the conditions are ideal but I do like to say that the Labour Department has taken definite and quite large steps to bring about better conditions in coal mines.

250 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES We have now been working our coal mines with two types of labour— local labour and the labour which we have imported from outside, principally from the Gorakhpur district of the U.P. I should like to give the house certain figures with regard to wages. The Gorakhpur labourer gets 12 annas per day as basic wage ; in addition to that he gets four annas of production bonus and he gets four annas of extra allowance for working underground. Then we give him food free, the cost of which comes to 14 annas per day per man. Mrs. Renuka Ray (Nominated Non-Official): Sir, on a point of order, I think the Honourable Member has taken 25 minutes already. Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Datta): The Honourable Member in charge can be given more than 20 minutes. Mr. N. M. Joshi : The rule is 20 minutes. Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Datta) : No ; 20 minutes or more if necessary. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : As I said, Sir, apart from these wages the Gorakhpur labourer is given 14 annas per day for his food. He has free housing and free medical aid. Coming to the other colliery labour, their wages stand as follows. There is an increase in cash wages of 50 per cent. over the pre-war rates which were 8 annas on the surface and 14 annas underground. Then he or she gets certain rations. The local colliery labourer gets 4 seers of foodgrains per worker at controlled rates for himself or herself and 4 seers for each adult dependent and 2 seers for each child between two and twelve years. In addition he or she gets one-fourth of the basic ration in cereals and dal at the concession rate of six seers to the rupee. Each worker also gets one seer of rice free of cost for each day of attendance. In addtion to that he gets cash benefits which are two annas per day of attendance to a worker who has no dependent, three annas to a worker with one dependent, five annas to one with an adult dependent and a child or children. Mr. Sri Prakasa : Sir, on a point of order. So far as I know, the option to allow a Government member to speak for more than 20 minutes, to which you referred, was for the Member in charge and not for any Member of Government who might jump up and speak. In this case the Member in charge is the Finance Member whose motion is before the House. It is not the Labour Member’s motion.

251 LABOUR POLICY OF GOVERNMENT OF INDIA Mr. Sami Vancatachelam Chetty (Madras : Indian Commerce): Sir, I move that the question be now put. Several Honourable Members : The question may now be put. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I cannot be disturbed in this fashion. Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Datta): Order, order. Closure motion can be moved only after the speech is finished. I have done all that I possibly could to help the Opposition with regard to the next motion, but I have no option now. Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Sir, on a point of order, the Government Member can speak for 20 minutes or more. But the point is, is it to be left to the sweet will of the Government Member himself to spin out his speech to inordinate lengths ? Or is it for the Chair to decide whether the Honourable Member has had sufficient time or not ? I contend that this power lies solely with the Chair and the Government Member cannot be allowed to spin out his speech to any length he likes. I contend he has had sufficient time. Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Datta) : It is a very delicate thing for me to say that he has had enough time to speak or that he is taking time deliberately. Several Honourable Members : The question may now be put. Mr. Sami Vencatachelam Chetty : I rise to a point of order. Evidently the Chair is under the impression that I cannot move the motion for closure, but I think this time as the Honourable Member has resumed his seat I can move the closure motion. Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Datta): It is a convention that closure motion cannot be moved when a member is speaking. But the point is that the Honourable Member did not take his seat because he had finished his speech but because he was interrupted. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Then, Sir, Mr. Joshi said that the Labour Department was short-staffed. I am rather surprised how Mr. Joshi came to make that statement. I would like to inform the house about the staff which has been employed by the Labour Department quite recently. So far as the coal Mines are concerned, we have got the Chief Executive Officer for the Coal Mines Welfare Committee. He has got a Chief Welfare Officer under him and under

252 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES him are two inspectors—one of them is a lady welfare inspector. Then, Sir, we have a Director of Unskilled Labour Supply. He has under him three Deputy Directors and four Assistant Directors. (At this stage, there was a loud uproar and thumping of the table on the Opposition Benches.) Mr. Abdul Qaiyum : Your demand will be thrown out completely. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : There are 20 officers under the Chief Inspector of Mines. Then, in addition to that we have now appointed a Chief Labour Commissioner at the Centre. Under him there are three Deputy Labour Commissioners who will be in charge of all the welfare activities. Then, Sir, Mr. Joshi said that the Labour Department was always behind time in taking action, that delay was the rule. On this point what I would like to submit is this that in the circumstances in which we are carrying on the activities of the Labour Department delay is inevitable. We have got to consult the Provincial Governments, we have got to consult the organisers of labour, we have got to consult the employees. All this must necessarily take time, and therefore I do not think that there is any point in Mr. Joshi saying that we delay matters. Mr. N. M. Joshi: Mr. Deputy President, I rise to a point of order. Is it your ruling that a Member of Government can speak at any length ? I want a ruling from the Chair definitely……… Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Dalta) : I understand the Honourable Member has finished his speech. Mr. N. M. Joshi: Sir, I want to save the time of the House, and therefore I ask leave of the House to withdraw my cut motion. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I would like to say one thing that if my Honourable friend, Mr. Joshi had told me that he was going to withdraw his cut motion, I would not have spoken as long as I have done. Mr. Deputy President (Mr. Akhil Chandra Datta): Mr. Joshi was not bound to give any previous intimation to the Honourable Member to the effect that he was going to withdraw his cut motion. The motion was, by leave of the assembly, withdrawn. zz

43 * Need for immediate re-imposition of ban on Employment of women underground in Mines Mrs. Renuka Ray : Sir I move : “That the demand under the head ‘Department of Labour’ be reduced by Rs. 100.” Sir, since August 1943 and December of the same year, when the ban on women working in underground mines was first withdrawn, there has been a consistent and insistent protest throughout the country against this undersirable action. The Government of India are fully aware that they have not only violated an international pledge but that they have considerably shocked and offended world opinion. A year ago, at the request of all-India Women’s Conference, I moved an adjournment motion asking that the ban be re-imposed immediately, and my Honourable friend, Mrs. Subbarayan, also spoke on a cut motion on labour during the Budget Session on the same subject, but the plea of the Honourable the Labour Member at that time was that this was a very temporary measure only to be carried on till the next harvesting season and not for the period of the war that arrangements were being made to remedy the labour shortage, and that once these arrangements went through the ban would be lifted. Sir, the attitude was that we were creating all this song and dance about nothing since the period was to be very short. A year has come and gone and today I think the attitude has become far more adamant. The Honourable the Labour Member has made it only to clear that he does not intend to reimpose that ban. The Honourable Members of this House are only too well aware of all the circumstances and realise fully, I am sure, that the arguments that have been put forward if they had come from a merciless type of capitalist employer, could have been understood. * Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. II, 13th March 1945, pp. 1463-66.