Vol. 10 · pages 331–335

314 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Diwan Chaman Lall (West Punjab—Non-Muhammdan): May I interrupt my Honourable friend for a minute ? Is it a fact that the demand for the appointment of an adjudicator has been definitely turned down by the Government ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am coming to that. The point I was making was this—that there can be no question of the appointment of an adjudicator unless the Labour Department is fully satisfied that the last attempt for a mutual settlement between the two parties has failed ; and what I am pointing out to my honourable friend is this—that an opportunity still exists, an opportunity is still provided, and it is for the Railwaymen’s Federation to inform the Railway Department what will be the exact date on which they will meet the Railway Department……… Diwan Chaman Lall: May I ask my honourable friend once again whether it is a fact that the Government have denied to the Railwaymen’s Federation any information regarding the number of people that they have decided to retrench, and secondly, whether they have refused to appoint an adjudicator, and thirdly whether they arc still continuing to retrench men? I think about 10,000 have already been retrenched. Where then is there the further question of negotiation when the Government has taken up this point of view ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I think my honourable friend forgot, when I got up to intervene in this debate, that I said I would confine myself to the question of adjudication. The rest of the question as to how many will be retrenched, whether they will be retrenched, if retrenched how they will be dealt with, all that is a matter which I am sure will be dealt with by my Honourable colleague who will reply after I have finished. As I said, I am only discharging the responsibility that falls on the Labour Department. The point that I was making was that unless and until the Labour Department is satisfied that there is no further room for settlement, it would be impossible, it would be unfair and quite contrary to established procedure for the Labour Department to intervene and say “We shall appoint an adjudicator”. The point I was making, therefore, is this—that this motion, at any rate that part of the speech of my Honourable friend who accused the Labour Department of not having stepped in at the right moment, is certainly too premature, and I think if he will bear

315 REJECTION OF.......RETRENCHMENT in mind the facts I have disclosed, he would himself voluntarily withdraw the statement that he made that the Labour Member was fiddling. I certainly was not. Then let me come to the other side of the question. It is true that under the Defence of India Act, the Government does possess the power to appoint an arbitrator under rule 81 of the Defence of India Act. But I think it is only fair to mention that although this is an emergency legislation, we are not altogether precluded from observing such canons of judicial consideration from exercising the powers that we possess under rule 81, that is, arbitration. For the purposes of arbitration we must have a dispute in existence. As I have said, at the present moment there is no dispute ; the matter is under consideration. Secondly, before any adjudication is made, we must be satisfied that the dispute relates to terms and conditions of employment—for instance, that the dispute relates to hours of work, to wages, and to points of that kind. What is the point that is at dispute between the Railway Department and the Indian Railwaymen’s Federation ? I am sorry to say that the Railwaymen’s Federation has certainly not conducted its case in the way in which it ought to have conducted it. They have certainly have gone and done a great deal of harm to themselves. The point, I would like to make in this connection is this—what is the point on which the Railwaymen’s Federation is stressing all through ? Is it a point that relates to hours of labour ? Is it a point that relates to wages ? I say definitely that the points of dispute do not relate to either of these two points. It is quite true that the Railwaymen’s Federation has passed a number of resolutions many of which refer to hours of work and to conditions of labour. But we have got to make a distinction between what are called fundamental points of dispute and points which are merely tagged on. If one were to examine the resolution that has been passed by the Railwaymen’s Federation, we find that the gravamen of their complaint is that the railways shall not reduce a single workman. Questions relating to hours of labour and questions relating to wages are just tagged on—they are not the points of difference. In order to substantiate what I am saying, the fundamental point of dispute between the railways and the Indian Federation of Railwaymen is the question of retrenchment, the question is as to how many persons will be

316 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES employed and how many will be discharged. I would like to point out one or two other circumstances. The first is this—as I said, in their letter of the 5th of October 1945, they had put forward some fifteen or fourteen demands. A conference was arranged between the Labour Department and the President of the Indian Railwaymen’s Federation, Mr. Gin, in order to assess and find out what exactly were the points which they regrded as fundamental, and I should like to tell the House that although there were fifteen resolutions, only three points were placed before the Labour Department for consideration. The rest of them were regarded by the Railwaymen’s Federation as matters of no consequence. Again when a formal meeting was brought about the Railwaymen’s Federation and the Railway Department, even the three points that were raised before the Labour Department were dropped, and the only point that was taken up was the question of retrenchment. With all respect to the gentlemen who have spoken and to the President of the Railwaymen’s Federation, I must confess my utter inability to understand how, for instance, a question as to how many people should be employed by a particular department, can be treated as a justiciable dispute. I am wailing, as I said, for the president of the Railwaymen’s Federation to evolve out of the negotiations with the Railway Department some point which might be regarded as justiciable, so that the Labour Department may find it is worthwhile to intervene and to persuade that an adjudication be made. Sir, I think that a censure motion is not deserved. zz

55 * Proposed Evacuation of Villages in the Prosecution of the Damodar Scheme Mr. President: Then there is the motion of Mr. Ram Narayan Singh, about the proposed and forced evacuation of thousands of people of hundreds of villages of the Hazaribagh, Manbhum and Sonthal Parganas districts of Bihar from their homes and hearths in the process of the prosecution of the Damodar Scheme. I should like to know what exactly the Honourable Member means by this motion. Babu Ram Narayan Singh (Chota Nagpur Division : NonMuhammadan): Sir, land acquisition proceedings are going on in some of the districts. In the process of the prosecution of the Damodar Scheme, several villages are going to be occupied by the Government and the people are about to be asked to evacuate those areas. Mr. President: May I know when the scheme was started and how far it has proceeded ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : I would like to submit that at this stage there is absolutely nothing to be discussed. Government has no doubt under contemplation putting certain dams on the Damodar River, which flows through Bihar and Bengal; but with regard to the specific questions raised in this adjournment motion, which speaks of forced evacuation, all I have to say is this : that we are at a very very preliminary stage : we are merely making an inquiry as to how much land would be submerged by the enclosure of this water, what would be the area that would be affected, etc., and we are trying to see how many persons will have to be evacuated, the nature of their holdings and what rights they have. There is really nothing specific ; no action has been taken by Government at this stage which could be the subject-matter of discussion ; and what I would like to say is this : that I hope when the government has come * Legislative Assembly Debates, Vol. I-No. 12, 7th February 1946, p. 606.

318 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES to some definite conclusion in this matter I shall be able to circulate a paper to the House containing the conclusions of Government and members can then raise the matter for discussion in any way they like. Babu Ram Narayan Singh : My information is that the land acquisition proceedings are going on in the Hazaribagh district and they are asking people to go away. Mr. President: Is the Honourable Member sure that those proceedings are in respect of this very scheme ? Babu Ram Narayan Singh : Yes. Mr. President: But it appears that the Government has done nothing so far. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Government are merely acquiring some land for the purpose of having access roads. Mr. President: In connection with this scheme ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes: they have only served notices in order to prepare some access roads. No question of evacuation has arisen at this stage Mr. President: The acquisition is for the purposes of collection of data? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : There is no question of acquisition at this stage at all. No doubt if government decide to construct certain dams on the Damodar River, certain approach roads must be made for that purpose ; and for that purpose they have served notices on a few people in order to acquire small strips of land for the purpose of making roads. As to the specific question raised in the adjournment motion regarding forced evacuation of thousands of people in hundred of villages in the Hazaribagh districts and Manbhum and Sonthal Parganas, from their homes, it certainly does not arise at this stage because government has no idea as to what will happen, if I may say so. It is very very preliminary. Mr. President: The difficulty I am feeling about this is that, if government have decided that the dams should be put up and if they are taking steps initially for approach roads, what does it matter whether they have been able to ascertain or not as to how many people will have to be evacuated, because the dam will be an established fact ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: No, Sir; we are still consulting consultants from outside to help us as to what correct