Vol. 10 · pages 581–585

560 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES shall be appointed under him an Indian to be trained so that when the European vacates the Indian would be able to take charge of the department. Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra : The Honourable Member said just now that Mr. Cowen Started work at the end of May 1942, and that in regard to these non-ferrous metals, zinc and lead the appointment of British officials was inevitable. When did it occur to the Government of India to have these mines explored ? Was it after the fall of Burma, so as to provide for these gentlemen who have been thrown out of employment ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot give an answer to that question. Pandit Lakshmi Kanta Maitra : When did the Government first take it into their head to have these mines worked in India ? What have they been doing all this time ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Probably quite spontane ously without reference to anything external. Sardar Sant Singh : May I ask whether the need for working these mines was felt as a necessity to provide for the war effort, or was it to provide these evacuees from Burma with some jobs ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Certainly not; the supplies from Burma having ceased it was necessary for the Government of India to exploit their own resources. Mr. K. C. Neogy : With reference to clause (d) of the question, my Honourable friend stated that petroleum was not included among the minerals at the present moment. Has petroleum been excluded from the programme as a matter of discretion with the department or because the Government has been committed to some other agency for the development of petroleum in India ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Not at all. My answer was that for the present the programme docs not include it; it does not mean that it is excluded from the programme altogether. Mr. K. C. Neogy : Will the Honourable Member be surprised I were to tell him that Dr. Fox made a statement on the 6th of July, a portion of which I referred to yesterday, somewhat to that effect ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I would like to say this to my Honourable friend, that Dr. Fox does not decide the policy of the Government of India.

561 L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Mr. K. C. Neogy : But Dr. Fox may at least be expected to be truthful. Anyway, may I ask another very short question? My Honourable friend stated that the Udaipur Durbar had to be persuaded to cancel the lease in respect of lead and zinc mines in that State, which had already been granted to a private party. Before getting the Udaipur Durbar obligingly to cancel this lease, was any attempt made by the Government to find out whether an agreement could not be arrived at with that private party for the purpose of enabling whatever activities the department wanted to carry on to be carried on ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I must have notice of that question. 3 * “Bevin Boys ” Returned to India and their Employment 23. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : Will the Honourable Member for Labour please state how many “ Bevin boys ” have returned to India and if all of them have got employment ? If not, what are the reasons for their unemployment? Are any of them taking any part in Trade Unions? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : 149 Bevin boys have returned to India of whom 26 arrived only on the 5th September and are now being tested by an Examining Board. Of the remaining 123, 105 have been placed in employment with an average increase of salary of 145 per cent. Of the balance of 18, nine boys who arrived at the end of July have been allotted to posts and will be appointed very shortly; two who do not wish to take up factory work are being considered for Emergency Commissions—one in the Indian Army and one in the Indian Air Force ; three have refused the posts offered to them and efforts are now being made to find them other appointments ; one is being returned to his original employment on increased pay; one is undergoing tests with a view to appointment as Welder Instructor * Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1942, 15th September 1942, pp. 112-113.

562 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES at a training centre ; one has been earmarked for a post but cannot at present be traced; and the last man was returned from England for misconduct without completing his training. It is too early yet to say whether any of the returned trainees are taking part in Trade Union Affairs. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : May I know if their unemployment is not due to the fact that they are taking part in Trade Union movements ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I do not think so. I do not see any evidence of unemployment among the trainees. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : My question was “ if all the ‘Bcvin boys’ have got employment ” and the answer was that all the ‘Bevin boys’ who have returned are not employed, that some are being tested, that some are employed that some are sent back to their old jobs. I want to put this question whether their unemployment is in any way due to the fact that they are taking interest in trade union activities. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I am sure it is not. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : What sort of misconduct was reported against one of the ‘Bevin boys ’ ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I have not got the information at present. I want notice. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : Has it got anything to do with his labour activities ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I would not like to spoil the chances of this young man, did not the Government think it advisable to make enquiries about what that misconduct was ? Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : When this case of misconduct was reported against this young man, did not the Government think it advisable to make enquiries about what that misconduct was ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no doubt that Government have got the information about the sort of misconduct he was found guilty of. I have not got the fact with me at present. I want notice. Dr. Sir Zkuiddin Ahmad : May I know whether the ‘Bevin boys’ come from the labouring classes ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: The Department is examining that aspect of the case.

563 L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : In view of the fact that the ‘ Bevin boys ’ return to India after obtaining proper training in England, where is the necessity for testing them again ? The Honourable Dr. B. R . Ambedkar: Most of the employers would not accept the word of the Government of India that they were trained, and the employer would like to satisfy himself that the man whom he is employing is properly trained. We cannot prohibit the employer from doing so. 4 * Depreciation in Labour Wages 27. Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya: (a) Will the Honourable Member for Labour be pleased to state if he has ascertained the exact depreciation in wages in proportion to the increase in value of food-stuff and textile commodities and general cost of living ? If so, what is the ratio ? (b) Is it not a fact that the dearncss allowance and wartime bonuses granted to Railway workers is not sufficient to make up for the proportional fall or depreciation in wages ? (c) If the answer to part (b) be in the affirmative, does the Honourable Member propose to reconsider the matter of wages of labour on the Railways and increase their wages to an amount which would be sufficient? (d) Do Government propose, during the war period, to set up food and cloth stores for supplying Railway labour with these commodities at prices commensurate with their present income and if it proves satisfactory to continue the arrangement as a permanent measure ? (e) Will the Honourable Member be pleased to make a comparative statement of wages paid to the Railway labour in Government controlled Railways, in private Railways (i.e. Company-managed and private State Railways) and in textile mills, jute mills and the iron and steel factories in India, and also their hours of work in a week ? * Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. III of 1942, 15th September 1942, pp. 115-17.

564 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : (a) The costs of living have not risen at the same rates throughout India ; there are reliable cost of living indices only for a few large towns ; the rates of wages even at one centre differ considerably for different classes of employees, and the movements in the rates of wages have been uneven at the same place and as between different places. In view of these factors, it is not possible to give a reply to the question as put by the Honourable Member. If he desires information regarding any specific class of employees at a place where there is a reliable cost of living index, I shall attempt to furnish it. (b) No. I believe that the dearness allowance meets full the increased cost of living in the lower grades though to a diminishing extent in the higher grades. (c) Does not arise; but I would add that recently the dearness allowance was enhanced by a considerable extent, in negotiation with the All India Railwaymen’s Federation and there is no justification for a further revision at present. (d) Grain shops have been and are being opened by a number of railways when the administration considered it necessary to do so. Commodities supplied in these shops are sold at prices not exceeding the control prices fixed by Provincial governments. It is proposed to run these shops during the war as long as the necessity for them exists. No cloth shops have yet been opened on the Railways. (e) There is no known basis for making such a wide comparison; each factory employs specialised labour and comparison is difficult. Mr. Muhammad Nauman : May I know from the Honourable Member whether it is the contention of government that there has been no rise in price since 1939 ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That is not the contention of the Government. All that the Government say is that there is no uniformity in rise. Mr. Muhammad Nauman : There is some uniformity taking the minimum. Are the Government not prepared to accept the minimum rise in all commodities, which is above 50 per cent ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am prepared to say that there is rise, but I cannot say that the percentage is as high as the Honourable Member suggests.