Vol. 13 · pages 991–995

958 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES party concerned in this. I see they are now indulging in criticising each other because of factors which lie outside this Schedule. I cannot find any other reason for this dissension, for this open dissension and hostility which has been exhibited by one against the other, and I do not wish therefore to enter into what I regard is a purely domestic quarrel. Shri Rohini Kumar Chaudhari : Is the Honourable Dr. Ambedkar entitled to make the insinuations against us? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am not making any insinuations; I was only saying, Sir, that it was a domestic quarrel into which I would not enter. My own view is that we have made the best provision...* Shri Kuladhar Chaliha : I object to Dr. Ambedkar imputing motives for honest opinion expressed. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am not imputing any motives. Mr. Chaliha was a party to every change that has been made in this Schedule. I would like him to deny that fact. Can he deny it? Shri Kuladhar Chaliha : Yes, I deny. I told Mr. Bardoloi that I did not agree with some things. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : He might have whispered in the ears of Mr. Bardoloi. He did not say a single word against these changes in the Drafting Committee. I did not get his signature as I did in certain other cases, because I do not want any Member to go back upon his word. However, what I was saying was that the Regional Councils and the District Councils have been given certain autonomy for certain purposes and at the same time they have been bound together in the life of the province and in the life of the country as a whole. If these circumstances which are of a unifying character, do not bind, do not bring the tribal people with the rest of the plains people in Assam and in the country, then the cause for such an unfortunate event must be found in something else. My friend, Mr. Rohini Kumar Chaudhari, stated that if you create the Regional Councils, the tribal areas will go the way of Tibet and go the way of some other area. I do not know that that prophecy could be confined only to the tribal areas. I fear that Assam itself might go. For that we cannot make any provision in the Constitution. I am sure about it. Shri B. Das (Orissa : General) : May I ask Dr. Ambedkar if he is aware that British agents are still working on the Assam—Burma border and that they have been responsible for the troubles between the Karens and the Burmans, and whether those same British agents are not still working in the tribal areas of Assam? After hearing the speech of my Friend, Rev. *Dots indicate interruption.

959DRAFT CONSTITUTION Nichols Roy, I think that he wants the tribal areas to be a separate entity so that British influence could permeate these tribals areas. As a Member of the Government, Dr. Ambedkar knows well—and I have known something— about these tribal areas. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : All I can say is that it is perfectly possible to devise some means by which we can eliminate this foreign influence altogether. Shri B. Das: The Drafting Committee... The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The Drafting Committee has nothing to do with eliminating this foreign influence. It is the function of some other body but I can assure my friend that it would not be difficult to get rid of this foreign influence. [Paragraph 2, as amended was added to the Schedule.] (Paragraph 3) ***** *Shri Kuladhar Chaliha : ...In fact this amendment is the same as mine and therefore Dr. Ambedkar should have accepted mine than by adding like this and watering down and making a fuss of making laws. It is better to accept by amendment No. 113 than the amendment of the Drafting Committee. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The honourable Member has already moved it for me. If you will take it as if moved by me, it will save time. Mr. President : I take it that he has moved. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Shall I move it formally? Mr. President : Yes. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I move: “That after sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 3, the following sub-paragraph be added :— ‘(3) All laws made under this paragraph shall be submitted forthwith to the Governor and until assented to by him shall have no effect.’ ” Shri Rohini Kumar Chaudhuri : Mr. President, Sir, I beg to move: “That in amendment No. 114 of List I (Seventh Week), for the proposed subparagraph (3) of paragraph 3, the following be substituted :— ‘(3) All laws made under this paragraph shall be submitted to the Governor who shall forthwith place them before the legislature of the State and until agreed to by the Legislature and assented to by the Governor such laws shall have no effect’.” The amendment was negatived ***** *CAD, Vol. IX, 6th September 1949, p. 1029.

960 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES ***** *Mr. President: Dr. Ambedkar, do you wish to say anything? I do not think there is anything in this to discuss. The honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, with regard to my Friend Mr. Chaliha’s amendment No. 113, I really do not understand what it means. It says: “The Governor shall make laws and regulations and entrust the District Council and Regional Councils with such powers as the State legislature may approve.” I cannot understand what it means. I am therefore unable to say that I accept it. With regard to my amendment and the amendment moved by my honourable Friend Mr. Rohini Kumar Chaudhari, there is hardly any difference except a failure to understand on the part of my honourable Friend as to what the word ‘Governor’ means. He says that the laws shall be approved by the legislature of Assams. According to my amendment, the laws will be approved by the Governor as advised by the Ministry of Assam, because in all this scheme we are dropping the words ‘in his discretion’. Wherever the word Governor occurs, it means Governor acting on the advice of the Ministry. I should like to ask him whether he really thinks there is very serious difference between a law being approved by the Governor acting on the advice of the Ministry and a law being approved by the legislature of Assam itself. I think my scheme is much more consistent with the originals of the scheme, namely, that the tribal people themselves should have a certain inherent right given by the constitution to make laws in certain respects. That being so, my paragraph (3) is much more consistent with the scheme and gives the Assam Ministry some power to advice the Governor as to whether he should accept or not accept any law. The intervention of the legislature is quite unnecessary. Shri Rohini Kumar Chaudhari : If I have understood the Honourable Dr. Ambedkar aright, I would be prepared to withdraw my amendment. I mean, if the Governor is to be advised by the Ministry and the Ministry takes the opinion of the legislature, then, I have no objection. If the advice of the Ministry means that the Ministry will take no such action until the house has had an opportunity of discussing it, then, I think it is the same thing which I want and which Dr. Ambedkar wants. In that case, I shall withdraw. The Honourable dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I think he is under standing more than what I have said. I am not prepared to give him that assurance at all. *CAD, Vol. IX, 6th September 1949, p. 1031.

961DRAFT CONSTITUTION [Amendment was negatived. Paragraph 3, as amended, was added to the Schedule.] (Paragraph 4) *The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: Sir, I move : “That in sub-paragraph (1) of paragraph 4, the words and figures ‘or those arising out of any law made under paragraph 3 of this Schedule’ be deleted.’ ” They are unnece ssary. Sir, I also move: “That in sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 4, for the words ‘shall have appellate jurisdiction over such suits or cases and the decision of such Regional or District Council or Court shall be final’ the words ‘except the High Court and the Supreme Court shall have jurisdiction over such suits or cases’ be substituted.’ ” Sir, I also move: “That after sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 4 the following sub-paragraph be added :— (3) the High Court of Assam shall have and exercise such jurisdiction over the suits and cases to which the provisions of sub-paragraph (2) of this paragraph apply, as the Governor may from time to time by order specify’.” This amendment makes an important change. Originally under subparagraph (2) of Paragraph 4 the decision of the District Court was final. Now we have provided that they shall be subject to appellate jurisdiction of the High Court and the Supreme Court which was a necessary provision. ***** †The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I must say that I was somewhat surprised by my honourable Friend’s putting me these questions. I think he could have answered them himself. But I will now answer them as he has put them to me. With regard to the first question of whether lawyers will be allowed to appear in courts established in the tribal area, the answer is very simple. In the first place, the Provincial Government will have the power, under the entry in List III dealing with professions, to make any law with regard to the legal profession; and if under that law they provide that lawyers shall be entitled to appear in the courts in the districts which are known as autonomous districts, then that law will apply unless the governor thinks that that law should not apply. Therefore, that matter is quite clear. With regard to the question of appeals from the decisions of the tribunals which are created under this paragraph, the answer again is quite simple. The paragraph first provides that a court of appeal may be *CAD, Vol. IX, 6th September 1949, p. 1033. †Ibid., pp. 1035-1036.

962 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES constituted there. Now the Governor or the Provincial Ministry may either constitute a new court of appeal in which case appeals will go to that court, or may declare the District Judge’s Court as a court of appeal which will hear appeals from decisions made by the village panchayats and other courts. Therefore, there again there is a provision for appeal. According to my amendment now, there may be a further appeal from the District Court of appeal either to the High Court or to the Supreme Court. Shri Rohini Kumar Chaudhari : I particularly read out these lines of sub-paragraph (2):— “...the Regional council for an autonomous region or any court constituted in this behalf by the Regional Council or, if in respect of any area within an autonomous district there is no Regional Council, the District Council for such district, or any court constituted in this behalf by the District Council, shall exercise the powers of a Court of Appeal in respect of all suits and cases between the parties all of whom belong to scheduled tribes...” What would happen when one of the parties is not a member of a scheduled tribe? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : If the parties are such that one is a tribal and the other a non-tribal, then the ordinary law will apply. Shri Rohini Kumar Chaudhari : Where have you provided it? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It follows from it. Even now it says, “where the parties are...”*. I do not think there is any difficulty and I hope my friend has understood it. Shri Rohini Kumar Chaudhari : There is no provision made anywhere, Sir. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The jurisdiction of the ordinary court is ousted only to the extent provided for in paragraph 4. Otherwise the jurisdiction of the ordinary courts continues. These will not be the only courts in this area; there will be other courts established by the Provincial Government for the purpose of administration of the general law of the Province. [Paragraph 4, as amended, was added to the Schedule.] (Paragraph 9) †The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Sir, I move: “That sub-paragraph (1) of paragraph 9 be deleted.” The paragraph refers to licence or lease granted by the Government of Assam for the prospecting for or the extraction of minerals. That matter now is with the Central Government and therefore it is unnecessary to have this sub-paragraph here. *Dots indicate interruption. †CAD, Vol. IX, 6th September 1949, p. 1039.