Vol. 14, Part II · pages 176–180

956 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES to sixteen per cent of the population. Is it proper, is it democratic for you without going to a Select Committee even to so change the nature of the Bill that it will affect hundred per cent, of the citizens of India—because Land has now been brought into the purview of the Central Legislature ? I very respectfully beg to suggest that it is not proper for this Legislature, keeping self-respect in view, to go so much forward without even the formality of having a Select Committee to go over it. I know that now it is no good crying over spilt milk. But I am bringing all these arguments in favour of making this Bill elective. I do not say, having advanced so far and having made so many mistakes in the past, that you should now brush it away. But at least you should have the decency to say that you will allow the people to have their choice whether they wish to be under this Act or not. This choice may be either general as my hon. friend Mr. Jaspat Roy Kapoor has suggested, or it may be restricted as I am suggesting now for the consideration of Government. Government [mr. Speaker in the Chair. ] have got ample time according to present estimates. The Bill is not going to be proceeded with immediately now. Therefore it is possible for Government to reconsider their position. In all humility I would appeal to Government to give if their best consideration and make it elective in full and if that is not possible for having it at least in part made elelctive and not compulsory. Otherwise it will be dictatorship and not democracy. Mr. Speaker : We will now take up the half an hour discussion. Shri Gadgil : A request was made by hon. Members to let the House know about a certain accident that has happended in the morning in the Chandni Chowk. Mr. Speaker : I think it had better be taken at 5-30 instead of now. ll 5 p.m.

957 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL *HINDU CODE— contd. Clause 2.—(Application of Code) —Contd. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad (West Bengal) : I have a point of order.... Shrimati Durgabai (Madras) : On what subject, may I know, is the hon. Member raising his point of order ? There is no subject before the House on which the point of order could be raised. First of all the motion should be moved. Shri Sondhi (Punjab) : Who are you ? You are not sitting in the Chair (Interruptions). Shrimati Durgabai : The motion must be made first. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The business before the House is further consideration of the Bill to amend and codify certain branches if the Hindu Law, as reported by the Select Committee. Clause 2 of the Bill is under consideration. Shri R. K. Chaudhari (Assam) : Before anything is said or done I would earnestly appeal to the House through you, Sir, that there need not be any unnecessary excitement. I am constrained to say that the conduct which has just now been shown by Shrimati Durgabai is far from such and is.. .(Interruptions). Further more I wish to know whether the attention of the Government has been drawn to a Press news published yesterday, namely, that even if this Bill be passed the President may withhold his assent and so far….. (Interruptions). Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order, order…… Shrimati Durgabai : May I give an explanation since the hon. Member has referred to me ? Mr. Deputy Speaker : Not while I am on my legs ... Shrimati Durgabai : You must give me an opportunity to answer what the hon. Member has said ( Interruptions). Mr. Deputy Speaker : Order, order. The hon. Member who advised another hon. Member not to be excited is himself excited. One should sit on the right and the other on the left. So far as the reference to the President is concerned his name ought not to be canvassed for the purpose of this Bill one way or the other. Rule 159 (vi) says that a Member while speaking shall not use the *P.D., Vol. XV, Part II, 17th September 1951, pp. 2674-2738.

958 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES President’s name for the purpose of influencing the debate. The President’s name ought not to be referred to here at all. Shri Kamath (Madhya Pradesh) : Not on a point of order, but on a point of propriety, when such a measure as the Hindu Code is before the House, is it quite proper for the Hon. Law Minister to have such a big basket before him ? Shri R, K. Chaudhari : This does not fit in with the serious topic before the House. I want to know if it is a fact that the President will address this House on the Hindu Code. Mr. Deputy Speaker : No reference to the President can be permitted irrespective of anything that might have appeared in the papers. Now, what is the point of order of Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad ? Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : rose— Sardar B. S. Man (Punjab) : Before the hon. Member makes his point of order, may I say, Sir, that you have made certain observations previously in the debate that in your kindness you show certain concessions to lady Members here. Now when we are going to discuss this Bill may I request that henceforward you will treat hon. lady Members and men Members on an equal footing and no concessions will be shown to lady Members ? It is high time for them to make up their mind either to have the concessions or to have the Hindu Code Bill (Interruptions). Shrimati Durgabai : I would like the Chair to give a ruling. It was a fact that the Chair said sometime ago that special concessions were sought or asked for by the women Members and it is a fact that the women Members had emphatically protested that they did not want any special concession at all. Therefore, the hon. Member is quite wrong in saying what is not true. Mr. Deputy Speaker : I am fully aware that lady Members do not want any special concessions for themselves : it could not have been their intention. If therefore, I had made any such remark I thought that it would be taken in good humour and it was not my intention to cast any reflections. I know very well that no lady Member has ever been in need of any concession or indulgence. So far as I am concerned I have got both sons and daughters, and therefore, I shall try to be absolutely just. Now what is the point of order ? With respect to points of order I may remind hon. Members that they may state their points cryptically without any arguments, unless I want some elucidation with regard to them. I hope hon. Members will bear this in mind.

959 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : I shall state the point of order and elucidate it very briefly just to make it intelligible. Mr. Deputy Speaker : If I fail to understand I will ask the honMember. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad: My point of order concerns the applicability of the Bill to the former Indian States, some of which are now known as Part B States and some others have been incorporated in Part A States. The whole point is directed towards that question and I am directing my mind to that. Hon. Members : What is the point of order ? Pandit Maitra (West Bengal) : Is it the hon. Member’s point that the Bill has not been published to them ? Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : Yes, the Bill has not been published to them. Mr. Deputy Speaker : I have understood the point of order. 10 a.m. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : I have to state a few facts. Mr. Deputy Speaker : “Few facts” are not necessary so far as this point of order is concerned. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : There are rulings of the Chair on this point. I wish to draw your attention to this point which was raised by Mr. Sarwate on the 24th February, 1949 ... Mr. Deputy Speaker : The House is on clause 2. Is this relevant so far as clause 2 is concerned ? Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : Yes, clause 2 will also apply to the former Indian States. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member knows too well that the scope or the extent of the operation of this Bill is governed by clause 1. Clause 1 (2) says : “It extends to all the Provinces of India.” This point of order may be relevant as to whether in this unrestricted manner it ought to be allowed, or whether, as it was originally framed, it does not apply under the Constitution. There may be many reasons for and against, but the point of order may be raised at that stage, not at this stage. Now we are going into general considerations : if they do not apply to Part B or Part C States, we will restrict them when we come to clause 1.

960 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : It will lead to inconvenience ; that will no doubt come formally, in due course : we should not be made to wait till that time. Mr. Deputy Speaker : I have given my ruling. The hon. Member does not say that this clause 2 will not apply to any State whatsoever; if it applies even to a small village in a single State in the whole of India we shall proceed with clause 2. When we come to clause 1 we shall eliminate all the others where it ought not to apply under the Constitution. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : The difficulty is this. If the Members belonging to the States know before hand that the Bill will not apply to them, they will not trouble themselves about the matter and discussion will be shortened. But on the other hand, if they are in the dark as to whether it will apply to them or not, they will have to partake in the debate. So, in order to clarify the situation we ought to know where we are and where they are. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member knows too well that we come back, after exhausting all the other clauses, to clause 1. Any hon. Member who is a representative of the States may proceed on the footing that it will apply—he may do so in the first instance. Then he may make an effort along with Mr. Naziruddin Ahmad to get it out. There is time enough. Shri Syamnandan Sahaya (Bihar) : Before we proceed with the Bill, I think the House is entitled to know the procedure which has been adopted from the papers we learn that only two parts of the Bill, concerning marriage and divorce, will be taken. It will be desirable for the Hon. Minister to explain the position so that the House may know in what direction we are proceeding and how this matter is ultimately going to be decided. That is one point to which I want to draw your attention, Sir, and the attention of the House. The other point to which I want to draw your attention and the attention of the Hon. Minister and of the House is this. Now the appearance of the Bill seems to be such that it is difficult to recognise it. As a matter of fact, the Hon. Law Minister himself, who is the Mover of the Bill, has sent in a very large number of amendments some of which reached us even yesterday. You will appreciate the importance of a Bill like the Hindu Code. You have also seen the seriousness that is attached to this Code by the Members of this House. We are really in a difficult position to find out suddenly what the amendments are, what the implications of those amendments