Vol. 14, Part II · pages 191–195

971 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL In part (a) sub-clause (1) of clause 2, for “members”, substitute “followers”. it is only a formal amendment and Dr. Ambedkar has agreed to accept this. The clause will then read : “and followers of the Brahmo, the Prarthana or the Arya Samaj”. Shri Bhatt (Bombay) : I beg to move : For sub-clause (2) of clause 2, substitute : “(2) This Code also applies to any person, irrespective of his religion, who has been governed by the Hindu law or by any customor usage as part of that law in respect of any matters dealt with herein.” I have tabled no other amendment. But Dr. Ambedkar has used the word ‘community’ with ‘tribe’, will he not also put in the word ‘clan’ with them ? Shri Barman (West Bengal) : I beg to move : In the proviso to sub-clause (2) of clause 2, for “in respect of those matters” occuring at the end, substitute : “in respect of matters which that person has not voluntarily chosen.” Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. member wants to give an option for him to come into the Hindu Code. Dr. Ambedkar : Something like that. Shri Barman : My intention is that a person who has voluntarily chosen to adopt the customs and usage of the Hindu law will not be allowed subsequently to say that he is not governed by them, but any third person may challenge or may prove that, that person was not governed by the Hindu Code and as such as regards the other matters the Code will not apply to him ; but as regards the matter which that person has himself voluntarily chosen, other persons would be precluded from challenging him. Mr. Deputy Speaker : If he has already chosen, he will not be governed by the earlier portion of the Hindu Law. Perhaps the hon, Member wants to make it more clear. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : I beg to move : (i) Omit part (b) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2. (ii) In part (a) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, for “Hindus, that is to say, all persons professing the Hindu religion” substitute “persons who are Hindus by religion”.

972 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mr. Deputy Speaker : That is the same thing as the Hon. Minister’s amendment. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : There is a verbal change. Then, I beg to move : (iii) For part "(b) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, substitute: “(b) to any person who is a Jaina by religion.” Mr. Deputy Speaker : It is an alternative amendment. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : Yes, Sir. Then, I beg to move : (iv) In part (b) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, for “Jaina or Sikh” substitute “or Jaina”. Mr. Deputy Speaker : He wants to eliminate the Sikhs and Buddhists. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : Yes, Sir. Dr. Ambedkar : There are varities of amendments. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : Some of them are alternatives. Dr. Ambedkar : One amendment says that Buddhists and Sikhs should be omitted and another says Jains should be omitted. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member does not want the Jains to be omitted. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : ‘Jains’ should stand. These are different variations of amendments, because hon. Members do not know which will be acceptable to the House and particularly by the Hon. Minister. Mr. Deputy Speaker : In all his amendments I find that the ‘Jains ‘is the common factor. He wants the others, that is, the Buddhists and Sikhs to be omited. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : ‘Jains’ I have not objected but the Sikhs have seriously objected. Mr. Deputy Speaker : They are now governed by the Hindu Code. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : The whole question is whether this kind of Hindu law should be forced upon them ? They are Hindus no doubt, but should this kind of non-Hindu Law or rather un-Hindu Law be forced upon them ? Then, I beg to move: (v) In part (c)(i) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, after “illegitimate” insert:

973 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL “who, if he has attained the age of eighteen years, is himself a Hindu and” (vi) In part (c)(i) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, after “parents are” insert “or have been”. (vii) In part (d) of sub-clause (1) of clause 2, at the end, add : “subject to his rights and liabilities before his conversion.” Mr. Deputy Speaker : Let me pause here. Let us understand the implications of this. Shri Jaspat Roy Kapoor wants that notwithstanding change of religion by a Hindu after the passing of this Code, his rights and liabilities must be regulated by the Hindu Code. This amendment wants that if a person wants to change and become a convert, his rights and liabilities under his original religion ought not to be affected. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : If he is wrong, I am also equally wrong. We are in a vicious circle. That goes against the very idea of conversion. If a man is converted, he loses his past and begins a new chapter. As Mr. Kapoor has submitted his amendment, I am submitting this amendment. Both should be accepted or both should be rejected. Mr. Deputy Speaker : Both the hon. Members want to avoid any change in their legal or civic rights as a result of conversion. Conversion ought not to affect their rights and liabilities with respect to property, succession, etc. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : There is an old Act which saves the past rights of Hindus converted to Christianity. That also reserves past rights and liabilities. (viii) Then, I beg to move : After sub-clause (1) of clause 2, insert : “(1A) This Code shall not apply to the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.” Dr. M. M. Das (West Bengal) : May I know what right the hon. Member has got to speak on behalf of the Scheduled Castes ? Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : At present, I am only moving my amendments. I am not trying to explain them ; I am not now trying to convince my hon. Friend. Mr. Deputy Speaker : There are some people who are more loyal to others than others themselves. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : I shall state my reasons. There are certain parts of the Code which would be too much for them to

974 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES assimilate. For example, they have very simple forms of marriage and divorce. You are making their life more complicated. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member forgets that his objection is to the whole Code. If it is said that they have got simpler forms of marriage and divorce and these forms need not be introduced, that is a matter for consideration. (The whole Code goes out as if they do not belong to the Hindu community.) Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : My objection is to the whole Code as well as every part—singly as well as taken as a whole. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member forgets that there is a consolidating portion also ; by his amendment even those portions for which no exception could be taken would not apply. We are only preliminarily discussing what exactly the hon. Member wants. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : Then, I beg to move: (ix) Omit sub-clause (2) of clause 2. Mr. Deputy Speaker : This is the residuary amendment. This seems to be absolutely meaningless. What is the Code which should govern ? The Indian Succession Act ? Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : There may be a man who may have a new religion. There is in Japan a religion known as Shintoism. If a person professing that religion comes to India, would you apply the Hindu Code or the Muslim Code ? He should be governed by his own Code. The proviso says that if it is “proved” that another law applies to him, then the Hindu Code would not apply. Upon whom will the onus lie ? Suppose a man comes to India professing no religion. He has civil rights and liabilities. Would he be governed by the Hindu Code ? Why not the Muslim Code or the Christian Code or the Sikh Code ? Every man should be governed by his own Code. I shall explain this proviso at the proper time. This proviso also goes too far. It throws the onus upon a person coming into India who is not a Muslim, Christian, Parsi or Jew by religion, to prove his status. How can he prove that the Hindu Code does not apply ? Mr. Deputy Speaker : He would be governed by private international law. Merely because he comes here, the Hindu Code would not apply. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : The point is that the onus is thrown upon a stranger who might find himself absolutely in hot waters. Shri J. R. Kapoor : This Code applies to non-Hindus to whom some portions of the Hindu law or customs under the Hindu Law are

975 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL applicable. This proviso does not apply to anybody to whom no part of the Hindu law is applicable. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : The whole applicability of the Code goes by the wording of the Act and not on its so called internal meaning. Shri J. R. Kapoor : The wording is clear. The proviso says: “Provided that if it is proved that such person...” “Such person” means the person referred to in sub-clause 2 and not a person coming from America or England. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : I beg to move : (x) Omit sub-clause (3) of clause 2. To me, this sub-clause is to beg the question. It says : “The expression ‘Hindu’ in any portion of this Code shall be construed as if it included a person who, though not a Hindu by, religion is, nevertheless, governed by the provisions of this Code.” This is the very question we have to clarify. To whom does this Code apply ? We say, if the Hindu Code is applicable to any one, he is bound by it. The question is to whom, apart from the Hindus, this Code should apply. It is begging the question to say that the expression ‘Hindu’ applies to whom this Hindu Code applies. We shall have to clarify the matters. I do not claim infallibility. But, I have felt some difficulty. Then, I beg to move : (xi) Omit sub-clause (4) of clause 2. Dr. Ambedkar : That is also my amendment. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : I also beg to Move :(xii) After sub-clause (4) of clause 2, insert:- “(5) Notwithstanding anything in this section, this Code shall apply only to such areas or to such persons or classes of persons in any State and from such time or by such stages as the State legislature may from time to time by Act provide.” Mr. Deputy Speaker : So far as this amendment is concerned, we shall have to consider whether this is the proper place where this amendment should be considered, or it should be…….. Dr. Ambedkar : It should come under clause 1. Shri Naziruddin Ahmad : If you think that it will be properly considered along with clause 1…… Mr. Deputy Speaker : This amendment stands over and will be taken up when we come to clause 1.