Vol. 14, Part II · pages 376–380

1156 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES strong difference with us they should settle down to the view that India must progress as a nation, and if we are the first nation in Asia and are going to be the first nation of the world, they will help us to advance and progress and not deter us in any way. I will conclude my speech by reminding the conservative friends in this House that this advancement of the Hindu Code and marriage laws is not a new thing. We have forgotten recent reformers like Sir Hari Singh Gour or Dr. M. R. Jayakar who have made specific indents into the old traditions and customs of Hindu laws, particularly marriage laws. So it is no use our saying that Dr. Ambedkar threw bombshell and a surprise at our consevative friends. We are progressing and Dr. Ambedkar has done one thing. He has faced the whole problem and not attempted piece-meal legislation. Yet to concede to our conservative friends the House is almost agreed to pass only one part of the Hindu Code Bill. I support the measure. *Dr. Ambedkar : I think it is an extra-ordinary event in the history of this Parliament and, I believe, in the history of die past Legislative Assemblies that we should have been engaged in the discussion of a single clause for not less than seven days. I do not think there is any parallel to this. But in view of the fact that many Members have raised the point that this Bill touches part of their conscience, our Prime Minister in a righteous spirit has allowed them and also the Chair, the longest time that any Member might want to consume in order to express his mind on the subject, ( An Hon. Member : Wrong). I have no complaint against that because it is much better that we should give to every individual, whether he speaks for or against, the fullest opportunity rather than create a feeling in the Members who do not see eye to eye with Government—to go home with a feeling— that they have been choked. I hope that, notwithstanding the fact that seven precious days have been spent in the discussion of this clause, when this clause is put to vote no Member will have a complaint on any such ground at all. Babu Ramnarayan Singh : I have. Dr. Ambedkar : The debate on this clause has as a matter of fact taken place in two parts. A part of the debate took place in the last session of Parliament, and this is a sort of a supplementary debate to the original debate. I am sorry to say that notwithstanding the fact *P.D., Vol. XV, Part II, 20th September 1951, pp. 2937-59.

1157 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL that I have paid the closest possible attention to the speeches which have been delivered in what I call the supplementary debate it has not been possible for me to find out what new point has been raised in the course of this supplementary debate which was not raised in the original debate. The only new factor which I have discovered in the course of this supplementary debate is the speech made by my friend Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee and another by our friend Mr. Man. Beyond that there has been nothing more than an expansive debate on points which were probably touched upon in the original debate. With regard to Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee I have a feeling that it is not necessary to take him seriously at all. He has, it seems to me, no mind of his own. Babu Ramnarayan Singh : have you ? Dr. Ambedkar : I have, most certainly. He was, as hon. Members of the House will know, a member of this Government practically for four years, during which this Bill has been placed before this House by the Government in office. I have not any recollection whatsoever, during the course of these four years when Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee was a member of the Government and when the Government had already sponsored this bill and put it before the House and it was in bits being discussed by Members of the House, that there was any single occasion inside the Cabinet when Dr. Mookerjee to my knowledge expressed the slightest difference of opinion on this Bill as against the Government. Shri Syamnandan Sahaya (Bihar) : Is it open for the Hon. Minister to disclose what happened there or what did not happen there ? Dr. Ambedkar : I am saying so. I remember also that in the earlier part, there were many party meetings held to discuss what should be done with regard to this particular Bill. I have a very clear recollection that in most of the meetings that were held, Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee was present and even then I do not recollect a single occasion when Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee—in the party which is an informal thing and where members of the Government are free to express their personal opinions, which they may not express outside on account of the joint responsibility— ever said anything against this Bill. It is, therefore, as I said, a matter of moods. (An hon. Member : Conviction.) Not at all. Either a man has a conviction or he has no conviction. That is my point. (An Hon. Member : He has resigned from the Cabinet.) I am sorry to say that he is to my mind

1158 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES a very tragic case, a tragic case of a sober, good well-behaved man, who having joined the company of the drunkards rolls from side to side and has become an inebriate himself. An Hon. Member : A good comparison. Dr. Ambedkar : Secondly, I have been noticing the performances of Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee ever since he has left the Government and has become a member of the Opposition, in fact almost a leading member of the Opposition and I have noticed that he has developed the unfortunate mentality which sometimes Leaders of Opposition develop, namely to oppose everything that comes from Government. In view of that, when a person is not prepared to discuss matters on merits but wants to oppose for the sake of opposition, it is, I think, hardly worth one’s while to waste one’s time and breath in order to meet his argument. As I said, that is the reason why I do not propose to take what Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee has said in a very serious manner. I, therefore, propose to deal only with the general points that have been raised by various speakers against clause 2 and generally against the Bill. The first point which perhaps is a new point is this, that there is really no necessity for the sort of Bill that we had brought forward. It is contended that the Hindu Society is a very ancient society, much more ancient than the Roman or the Greek Society and perhaps as old as the Egyptian Society. It has been contended that today all that we know about the Roman Society or the Greek Society or the Egyptian Society is their history ; they no longer exist; they have disappeared. The only ancient society which has survived is the Hindu Society and if the Hindu Society has survived while all other ancient societies have disappeared, then its laws, its social structure, its principles must be good. Otherwise, it could not have survived. This is not the first time that I have heard this argument. I have heard this argument a long time ago and not only heard it from men in the streets, but men who have been occupying most eminent positions such as those who are called the historians of India. This is an argument which had been presented all the time by those who believe in the sanctity of the ancient structure of this society. I must very frankly say that I too have been a student of India’s history, although I cannot claim that I am as good a student as many others who adorn the chairs of history in many of our universities. I believe, I have a sufficient understanding of the Indian history and the point that I would like

1159 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL to raise is this. Is survival enough or whether it is necessary for us to consider whether the plane on which we survived is more important than the mere survival itself ? A man who mixes with his opponent in battle vanquishes him, obtains victory on him also survives. A man who meets his opponent, runs away from him like a coward and he also survives. Is the survival of the victor of the same value, of the same character as the survival of a coward ? I think we ought to consider this question on what plane has the Hindu society survived. (An Hon. member : Survival of the fittest). Yes, but on circumstanes. Here my friends will forgive me saying so, when I examine the history of India, we have survived, yes, but we have survived as people who have been from time to time subjugated, vanquished and enslaved. (An Hon. Member : Who has not been ?) Yes. My. Hon. friend asks me the question “who has not been ?” There are many countries and many communities who have lost in battle, who have been enslaved but I would like to remind my Hon. friend that if he studies the history of all vanquished people, he will realise that some day, at some time, the vanquished people on other parts of the world have tried to achieve their liberty. I have not seen any such thing in this country. Therefore, the argument that merely because we have survived when other countries have lost and gone into history is one which does not convince me of the goodness or the soundness of the social structure under which we have been living. It has been said that the Hindu society has been a very progressive society. It was an argument which my Hon. friend, Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee expatiated at great length and he pointed out that so great a radical reformer like the Buddha was accepted by the Hindu society as a great figure and not only they accepted him as a great figure but they adopted and accepted some of the principles which he advocated in his life. It is no doubt one of the great qualities of Hindu society to absorb some things from those who oppose it. But, my point is this. Has the Hindu society changed its structure as a result of the absorption of the doctrine of their opponents ? Let me develop the position with regard to the Buddha. What did he preach ? He preached equality. He was the greatest opponent of chatur varna ; he was the greatest opponent of belief in the Vedas because he believed in reason and . did not believe in the infallibility of any book. He believed in ahimsa, the Brahmanic society accepted some things. What did they accept ? They accepted the most innocuous dogma of ahimsa. Nobody was

1160 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES prepared to accept and they did not accept—they opposed—his belief in equality. Notwithstanding the fact that it has abosrbed bits and bits of something which is of an innocuous character it did not touch the main thing on which they were all united namely to maintain chatur varna. That is the reason why notwithstanding this assimilative and adaptive quality, they have remained what they have always been. We have for long number of years waited to see whether Hindu society would, as a result of the absorption of the doctrines preached by great men who have been born in this country or great men born outside the country, change its social structure. Most of us, speaking for myself, have been completely disappointed. Whatever else Hindu society may adopt, it will never give up its social structure for the enslavement of the Sudra and the enslavement of women. It is for this reason that law must now come to their rescue in order that society may move on. Pandit Malaviya: Move on to what even Buddha could not do. Dr. Ambedkar : People have been saying that Hindu society has been changing. The question that I want to ask is this. Is this change in the direction of progress or it is a change in the other direction ? Any one who has studied the history of Arya society from the very beginning to the present day will have to admit, if he is a fair student of history, that whatever change has taken place, it has been a deterioration. There was, as everybody knows, no caste system among the Aryans. There may have been some kind of varna system; but the varna system never came in the way of inter-marriages. You can find many number of cases of Brahmans marrying untouchable women. Kashatriyas marrying sudras and sudras marrying upper class women. Pandit Malaviya: Which were the instances ? Dr. Ambedkar: I can give many instances if you will come to my room. I have got them. Pandit Malaviya : Why not now ? Dr. Ambedkar : But, the Aryans never had a hide-bound social system of class division that was later introduced. Nobody can deny that has been a subsequent change. You examine the position of Hindu women. Our Hon. friend Dr. Maitra. I think, who was a member of the Rau Committee, for the purpose of a thesis for a Doctorate degree of the Calcutta University wrote a book called The Position of Women in the Hindu Shastras.