Vol. 15 · pages 521–525

504 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Shri Chandrika Ram : It is not a new thing that I have brought forward here. In the Ministry of Education, the Government of india have already accepted this list and on the ground of this list, all these people are getting scholarships. What is the harm if the Government accepts….. Dr. Ambedkar: It cannot be done in this Bill. Mr. Chairman: We have already adopted clause 2; Clause 2 gives representation only to certain States. Those States are not included in this amendment. I do not see how this amendment could be moved. Therefore, I rule it out of order. The question is: “ That clause 3, as amended stand part of the Bill”. The motion was adopted. Clause 3, as amended, was added to the Bill. Clause 1, was added to the Bill. The title and the Enacting Formula were added to the Bill. Dr. Ambedkar: I beg to move: “ That the Bill, as amended, he passed. ” Mr. Chairman : Motion moved : “ That the Bill, as amended, be passed.” Ch. Ranbir Singh (Punjab): ( English translation of the Hindi Speech ) Sir, I must thank Hon. Dr. Ambedkar for providing representation for the backward classes of Delhi and other areas. But I wish to submit all the same that the problem presented by Delhi is a peculiar one. Delhi has four seats out of which hardly one falls to the lot of the rural areas. If the rural seat is also joined on to an urban seat and bracketed with it, the other seat being a reserved one, this would mean giving away the seat of one backward class to another. I think that as against the clever people of Delhi and the officers and big people living in New Delhi the rural people of Delhi should be included either among the scheduled castes or if the Hon. Minister would not have them as such on the ground that they are not Harijans, they might be included among the scheduled

505PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES tribes. The Hon. Minister should thus have tried to get them a seat. Since I know that this is extremely difficult I would make another suggestion. There is a general principle that as far as possible the seats for those areas which have a larger percentage of the scheduled castes, should be doubled. There are also some other considerations attached. I know that in the case of not one but several states, occasions have arisen when the Committees have not followed these rules. I do not mean to say that they have not followed them at all. Exceptions are always there and it would be right to a great extent, to treat this as an exceptional case. The reason for this is that there is a considerable difference between the people living in the rural and the urban areas of Delhi. Besides if people belonging to the scheduled castes are given representation from the rural areas they will have to experience a lot of difficulty. If any two seats out of the seats for Delhi city are doubled this would help those poor folks in whom we all are interested to secure true and proper representation. If, however, their seat is joined on to the rural seat this would not serve as a reward to them but rather as a punishment. Hence, I would appeal to the Hon. Minister to give a direction to the Election Commission that in the matter of the doubling of seats they might combine any two out of the three seats for Delhi city and turn them into double seats but that the seat for the rural areas should be left single so that it could be possible to do justice to a backward class of people who are as much entitled to sympathy as the scheduled castes. (Translation concluded) Shri J. R. Kapoor: Sir,…. Mr. Chairman : The Bill has been so much discussed and at such great length that I do not think any long speeches are necessary now. Shri J. R. Kapoor: I do not want to enter into any detailed discussion. If you will permit me, Sir, I only want to utter a note of warning. I will not take more than two minutes. That note of warning is that by not accepting my contention the Hon. Law Minister has rendered the greatest possible disservice to the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes of Part C States.

506 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Shri Sonavane : No, no. Shri J. R. Kapoor: I am sure he will regret sooner rather than later having adopted this attitude and this contention that the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes should be considered as defined in article 366 for the purposes of the Constitution. If I only draw his attention to article 335 and some other cognate articles which also use the words ‘scheduled castes’ then, I am sure he will change his opinion because if he would still stick to that view, then the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes will be deprived of all the various privileges that are contemplated to be given under article 335 and other articles to the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes residing in Part C States. Article 335 runs thus : “ The claims of the members of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled tribes shall be taken into consideration, consistently with the maintenance of efficiency of administration, in the making of appointments to services and posts in connection with the affaris of the Union or of a State. ” If scheduled castes and scheduled tribes as mentioned in article 335 are to refer only to those scheduled castes and scheduled tribes as are defined in article 366, meaning thereby the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes belonging to Part A and Part B States, then, the scheduled castes and scheduled tribes residing in Part C States do not get the advantage of article 335 of the Constitution. By this one error—I do not know whether it is error of judgment or what it is —by this one error to day-he has deprived the scheduled castes and the scheduled tribes of Part C States of all the benefits they were having or could have under article 335. And... Mr. Chairman: Order, order. May I ask the hon. Member whether all the members of the scheduled castes and the scheduled tribes are bound by the interpretation given by the Law Minister ? there is no such thing as an estoppel on interpretation. We have only just enacted this Bill without coming to any legal conclusions whether this interpretation or that interpretation is the correct one. That is for the courts to decide. The courts have to interpret the meaning.

507PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES Shri J. R. Kapoor: With due respect to you, Sir, I would submit that it is for the Government and for the Cabinet to advise the President in this matter and as such these scheduled castes and tribes will be losing what they were entitled to get with reference to article 335. So far as the Government is concerned, they are bound by the interpretation of the Law Minister. Mr. Chairman: And can he not change his opinion? Shri J. R. Kapoor: I do not know whether he will change his opinion or not. But so far I have found that... Mr. Chairman: Let me point out that at this stage this discussion is quite academical. After all we have accepted a particular provision in the Bill and we are not concerned any further with the definition of a scheduled tribe or scheduled class or other articles so far as this Bill is concerned. Shri J. R. Kapoor : Therefore, it is that I say I am only sounding a note of warning here. Shri Jnani Ram (Bihar) : The time for filing objections to the electoral rolls has expired on the 31st of March last. But in view of the amendments now made will the scheduled castes people be entitled to file objections even after this date? Dr. Ambedkar : That question does not arise because a person is registered as a voter irrespective of the fact whether he is a member of the scheduled castes or not. Shri Jnani Ram: Does it not arise when a candidate happens to be a member of a scheduled caste or scheduled tribe ? Dr. Ambedkar : That question will arise on the date of nomination. Mr. Chairman : The question is: “ That the Bill, as amended be passed. The motion was adopted.

508 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE (No. 2) BILL PRESENTATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE *The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): Sir, on behalf of the Chairman of the Select Committee I present the Report of the Select Committee on the Bill to provide for the conduct of elections to the Houses of Parliament and to the House or Houses of the Legislature of each State, the qualifications and disqualifications for membership of those Houses, the corrupt and illegal practices and other offences at or in connection with such elections and the decision of doubts and disputes arising out of or in connection with such elections. Shri Kamath (Madhya Pradesh): In regard to this matter may I know whether Government have taken any decision as to how many days will be allotted for the discussion of this very important Bill and when. That will be helpful to members in more ways than one. The Prime Minister and the Leader of the House (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): Government considers that this measure should have top priority, so that as soon as the Finance Bill is discussed this Bill should be taken up. Shri Kamath: How many days will be allotted for its discussion? Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I cannot say. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member very often gets into the noose. It is no good saying that it is open to any Member or even the Government to restrict the time allotted for the discussion of a Bill. Let not the House give away its rights and privileges. *P.D., Vol. 10, Part II, 31st March 1951, p. 5566.