Vol. 15 · pages 646–650

629PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES concentration of detenus in a particular jail and a candidate comes to know that a good many of them are illiterate and not able to sign, it is perfectly possible that he may approach the jailor and say “Get these things signed for me ? Shri Sidhva: There are so many officials. There is a Superintendent, jailor and so many officials are there. Should we assume that all of them are going to be corrupt ? Dr. Ambedkar: If the evil exists on a small scale, should we tolerate it on a large scale ? ( Interruption). Several Hon. Members: Put it to vote. Mr. Chairman: Order, order. Shri T. N. Singh (Uttar Pradesh): I would like the Law Minister to explain as to what will be the position of a husband whose wife is employed outside, in government service and whether he will exercise the right of vote or not ? Dr. Ambedkar: So far as the law is —my women friends in the House will forgive me—the husband does not carry the status of the wife; it is the wife that carries the status of the husband. I cannot consent to this kind of irregularity. I said there is a regular clause for it, namely 61(5). When you want to move an amendment, move an amendment to that. But there is no text of amendment before us. Mr. Chairman: There is an amendment which has been moved. This amendment has not been ruled out of order. At the same time the acceptance of this amendment involves two things, not only the right of voting but voting in a particular manner, that is by postal ballot. Therefore, even if this amendment is not accepted by the House it would not preclude its consideration under clause 61. So I would rather prefer. If the House agrees, that it may be taken under clause 61. Shri J. R. Kapoor: May, I submit that I have tabled an amendment to the same effect under clause 61 also? But if I have tabled an amendment there also it is because I consider it necessary that the amendment here also should be made.

630 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES The other amendment is a consequential one. Because clause 59 relates to the manner of voting and clause 61 relates to the right to vote…….. When we come to clause 61 the following words occurring in sub-clause (5) “or is subjected to preventive detention under any law for the time being in force” should be deleted there. Mr. Chairman: Order, order. Unless and until we succeed in getting it established that the detenu has a right to vote we cannot do anything. The manner how he would vote would naturally come after that. In the present arrangement, clause 59 precedes clause 61. So it would be better first of all if the House establishes that a detenu has got a right to vote. Then the question will arise how he should vote. If the House is of the opinion that the detenu has the right to vote, then the Government shall have to make some arrangements as to how he should exercise the vote. Shri J. R. Kapoor: But not without this law authorising the Government to make any such arrangement. Mr. Chairman: Order, Order. Let us hear the Hon. Minister. Dr. Ambedkar: If the House adopted it, what I would do would be to delete the last sentence, namely “or is subjected to preventive detention under any law for the time being in force” and then say “that for purposes of enabling persons under preventive detention to cast their votes, the Government may make provision either by establishing polling stations or by ballot paper” or put something like that. Shri J. R. Kapoor: The other course will be to take clause 61 and then clause 59. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: It does not preclude this House from deciding on the amendment proposed by Mr. Kapoor because the acceptance of the amendment will naturally involve a deletion in clause 61…… The procedure is quite right. I think you can put Mr. Kapoor’s amendment to vote... An hon. Member: What about the illiterate voters ?

631PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES Dr. Ambedkar: I would prefer this matter to be considered under 61 (5) which is more direct rather than to do it in this indirect fashion. Mr. Chairman: I think that so far as the right to vote is concerned, first of all it should be established by the House. As Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari pointed out there is no rule precluding us from considering clause 59 because the acceptance under clause 59 also establishes two things, namely, the right to vote as well as the right to vote in a particular manner. All the same it is an accepted principle that before we take to the latter course, it would be better to get the right to vote established. Then the Government shall have to prescribe the manner in which that right is to be exercised. Then when the amendment comes in, it will be right for us to say whether the particular mode which the Government proposes for obtaining the vote of the detenu is proper or not. We shall have occasion then to consider whether establishing polling stations or the voting by postal ballot would be a preferable method. Then, we shall have occasion to agree to that method. I think Mr. Jaspat Roy Kapoor has already agreed that this may be taken up when we consider clause 61. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: My suggestion is that the House should decide this matter. If you think that the House had better decide clause 61 first leaving clause 59 without being decided on now. I am quite agreeable to that. But we do not want this House to leave it to the tender mercies of the mover of the Bill either to move a similar amendment or not. We would like clause 61 to be disposed of first before clause 59. Mr. Chairman: Order, order. It is not right to suggest like that, because the matter is in the hands of the Chair. The Chair has to find which thing has to be moved first and which thing next. The Mover has expressed his sympathy with the amendment. Why should it be said that the matter be left to his tender mercies ? Shri J. R. Kapoor: I would submit that there does not seem to be any difference of opinion with regard to the acceptance of the principle of my amendment. So, I would say nothing on that. The only question is how the substance of

632 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES it should be incorporated and where…….. The right to vote already exists under the existing statutes. Clause 61 is a disqualifying clause. It does not confer any right of voting. It takes away the right of voting from certain persons who are enumerated in clause 61. But, here, we must specifically provide for that because here we are laying down the procedure by which various classes of persons are enabled to vote and this is the proper place. Mr. Chairman: Order, order. The point is absolutely clear. There is no dispute about that. The right of voting and the method in which the vote will be recorded, are the two matters before the House. There is provision in clause 61 which takes away the right of a detenu. We have first to see whether we succeed in seeing that that right is not taken away. Then the question will arise as to the method in which that vote is to be recorded. Then we can revert to clause 59, to see whether we can adopt this method of recording their vote or the other methods suggested by the Hon. Law Minister. With the concurrence of the hon. mover of the amendment. I am not putting this amendment to the House now. We can come back to clause 59 again if necessary. Several Hon. Members: All right. Mr. Chairman: I shall put the other amendment to the House. No. 396. Shri Shiv Charan Lal: About that. I want clarification on one point. Mr. Chairman: All the points have been clarified. Shri Shiv Charan Lal: The Hon. Minister while replying to amendment No. 396 said that this is not the place for bringing in the candidates, their election agents and polling agents. My submission is that the heading of this clause is “Special procedure for voting by certain classes of persons” and I think this is the proper place to bring them in. Mr. Chairman : The hon. Member will realise that herein the special procedure is given for postal ballot. The Hon. Minister has already explained that this is not the proper

633PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES method. It is for the Hon. Minister to make provision somewhere to see that these persons get the right to vote. Dr. Ambedkar : If my friend wants an explanation, I would like to give this explanation to him. This clause 59 makes special reference to provision for voting by postal ballot by certain persons. It does not take away the right of the Government or the Election Commissioner to make provisions by rules for the method of voting of some other classes of people. If he wants specifically any rule, he can do so when we come to clause 167 where power to make rules is given. Mr Chairman: I shall put amendment No. 396 to the House. Shri J. R. Kapoor: I would request you, Sir, to put it in parts seperately (f) and (g). Mr. Chairman: The question is: After part (e) of clause 59, add the following new part: “(f) the candidates, their election agents and polling agents ;” . Shri J. R. Kapoor: The Ayes have it. Sir. Mr. Chairman: I will again put it to vote. Shri J. R. Kapoor: Sir, most of the Members have not understood what is being put to vote. Dr. Ambedkar: This matter will be provided for separately, and I do not understand why my friend should insist on introducing this clause for the purpose of postal ballot. Shri J. R. Kapoor: Then I take it that it will be provided for somewhere else ? Mr. Chairman: Then I think the hon. Member wants to withdraw his amendment ? Shri J. R. Kapoor: Yes, on that assurance. I beg for leave to withdraw my amendments. The amendments were by leave withdrawn. Mr. Chairman: The amendment is withdrawn subject to our right to revert to clause 59, if the right is established in clause 61. We shall consider this amendment subsequently. The amendment is held over.