Vol. 17, Part I · pages 196–200

171ROLE OF ......................... INDIAN DEMOCRACY the Round Table Conference came immediately to my rescue and not to the rescue of the other side. I am very grateful to Mahatma for having extricated me from what might have been a very difficult situation. My only regret is why did not Mahatma take this attitude at the Round Table Conference ? If he had shown the same consideration to my point of view, it would not have been necessary for him to go through this ordeal. However, these are things of the past. I am glad that I am here now to support this resolution. Since the question has been raised in the newspapers as to whether this Agreement will have the support of the whole “Depressed” Classes community, I should like to make it clear that so far as I am concerned and so far as the party which stands with me is concerned and I am sure I am also speaking for the other friends who are present here that we will stand by the Agreement. Let there be no doubt about this. Our only concern is this, whether the Hindu Community will abide by it. (voices : Oh yes, we will) We feel that the Hindu Community unfortunately is not an integral whole but, if I may say so, a federation of small communities. I hope and trust that the Hindus on their side will look upon this document as sacrosanct and work in an honourable spirit. There is just one thing that I would like to say. I am very much obliged to all friends who took part in the negotiations, but I should like particularly to mention Sir Tej Bahadur Sapru and Mr. C. Rajagopalachari. Without Sir Tej Bahadur probably it, would have been difficult to carry through many of the points. I must confess that as the result of my experience of him for the last two years at the Round Table Conference that if there is any man in India who is above all communal prejudice it is Sir Tej Bahadur. His sense of fairness and justice is always a relief to all the minorities who hanker for securing some safeguards in the new Constitution. I must also mention my friend Rajagopalchari. He came to our rescue when we were almost at a breaking-point, and had it not been for his ingenuity probably the Agreement would not

172 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES have come into being. I must also thank Pandit Malaviya for the courtesy and forbearance that he showed in the hot exchange of words and acrimonious debates that went on during all these negotiations. The change that has been brought about in the Communal Award has been brought about by the insistence of the view that Separate Electorates are injurious to the national interests. I must confess that I remain unconvinced of that argument. I can quite understand that for a majority representation Separate Electorates are harmful but I still remain unconvinced that for minority representation Separate Electorates are an evil. I do not believe that Joint Electorates are going to be the final solution for the problem of absorbing the “Depressed” Classes in the Hindu Community. Any electoral arrangement, I believe, cannot be a solution of the larger social problem. It requires more than any political arrangement and I hope that it would be possible for you to go beyond this political arrangement that we are making today and devise ways and means whereby it would be possible for Depressed Classes not only to be part and parcel of the Hindu Community but also to occupy an honourable position, a position of equality of status in the community. So long as the “Depressed” Classes an ignorant lot, not imbued with a sense of self-respect, it was possible for them to accept the social status that was given to them by Hindu law, but as they get education they will begin to smart under these social Laws and there is a great danger of their seceding from Hindu Society. I beg of you to bear that in mind and hope that you will do the needful in the matter.” Rao Bahadur M. C. Rajah further supported the resolution. He said that he clearly saw a change of heart among the caste Hindu and that was why he supported the Agreement. He had no doubt at all that the Agreement will have the unstincted support of all the “Depressed” Class people in the country. Mr. C. Rajgopalachari moved a vote of thanks to the chair.

173ROLE OF ......................... INDIAN DEMOCRACY Pandit Malaviya announced that he was going to communicate with Mahatmaji regarding the fast declared by Sjt. Keiappan to establish the right of the “Depressed Class’ people to enter the Gurvayur temple in Malabar. Among those present at the Hindu leaders’ Conference of Sunday were : Sir Tej Bahadur Sapru, Sir Lallubhai Samaldas, Sir Purushottamdas Thakurdas, Sir Chunilal Mehta, Sir Govind Madgaokar, Mr. M. R. Jayakar, Pandit Hridaynath Kunzru, Mr. G. K. Deydhar, Mr. B. N. Karanjia, Mr. K. Natarajan, Rao Bahadur M. C. Rajah, Dr. Ambedkar, Mr. P. Baloo, Mrs. D. G. Dalvi, Miss Natarajan, Mrs. Hansa Mehta, Mrs. Avantikabai Gokhale, Mr. B. S. Kamat, Mr. Manu Subedar, Mr. G. D. Birla, Mr. D. P. Khaitan, Mr. B. F. Bharucha, Dr. Solanki, Dr. Choitram Gidwani, Lady Chimanlal Setalvad, Mr. Walchand Hirachand, Mr. B. J. Deorukhkar, Mr. C. Rajagopalachari, Mr. Devadas Gandhi, Mr. T. Prakasam and Babu Rajendra Prasad.” 1 His Majesty’s Government announced on September 26, 1932 that it would recommend to Parliament the endorsement of the Poona Pact. On Monday the 26th September 1932, the Hon’ble Mr. H. G. Haig, Home Minister, made his statement in the Central Legislative Assembly : “Statement Re. Communal Award. The Honourable Sir, C. P. Ramaswami Aiyar (Leader of the House) : Sir, will you allow me to request you to make a departure from the usual practice at question time as a very important statement has to be made by my Honourable Colleague, the Home Member, and I am sure the House will agree with me when they hear the statement that this departure is well justified. Will you allow us to do so ? Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Ibrahim Rahimtoola): What is the statement ? The Honourable Sir C. P. Ramaswami Aiyar : The Honourable Home Member desires to make a statement about the Communal Award and the decision of His Majesty’s Government with regard to the Communal Award in relation to the Depressed Classes. 1: The Bombay Chronicle, dated 26th September 1932.

174 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Ibrahim Rahimtoola): As a special case, the Chair will allow the statement to be made at this stage. The Honourable Mr. H. G. Haig (Home Member) : In accordance with your permission, Sir, I will read to the House a Statement issued by His Majesty’s Government this morning in connection with the agreement reached at Poona on Saturday afternoon. His Majesty’s Government have learnt with great satisfaction that an agreement has been reached between the leaders of the Depressed Classes and of the rest of the Hindu Community regarding the representation of the Depressed Classes in the new legislatures and certain other matters affecting their welfare. In place of the System of General Constituencies combined with Special Depressed Class Constituencies contained in the Government Communal Award of 4th August last, the agreement provides for General Constituencies with which seats are reserved for Depressed Classes subject to important conditions as to the manner in which the reserved seats are filled. The Government, in their Award which was given in the absence of agreement between the communities, were solely concerned in relation to the Depressed Classes to provide adequate securities that the interests of these classes should be observed by the new legislatures. As representatives of the Depressed Classes and other Hindus acting together believe that the scheme now forwarded by them to His Majesty’s Government is adequate for the purpose, the Government, in accordance with the procedure which they laid down in paragraph 4 of their Award, will recommend to Parliament, in due course, the adoption of the clauses of the agreement dealing with representation in the Provincial Legislatures in place of the provision in paragraph 9 of the Award (Applause). It will be understood that the total number of general seats including those reserved for the Depressed Classes under the agreement will, in each Province, remain the same as the number of general seats plus the number of special Depressed Classes seats provided for in His Majesty’s Government’s decision.

175ROLE OF ......................... INDIAN DEMOCRACY His Majesty’s Government note the agreement deals also with certain questions outside the scope of their award of August 4th. Clauses 8 and 9 deal with general points, the relisation of which will be likely to depend in the main on the actual working of the constitution. But His Majesty’s Government take note of these clauses as a definite pledge of the intentions of the Caste Hindus towards the Depressed Classes. There are two other points outside the scope of their Award : (1) The agreement contemplates that the franchise for the Depressed Classes should be that recommended by the Franchise (Lord Lothian’s) Committee. It is obvious that the level of the franchise for the Depressed Classes (and indeed for Hindus generally) must be determined at the same time as that for other communities is being settled, and the whole subject is under consideration by His Majesty’s Government— (2) The agreement also provides for a particular method of electing Depressed Classes representatives for the Legislature at the Centres. This, again, is a subject outside the terms of this Award which is under investigation as part of the whole for election for the legislature at the Centre, and no piecemeal conclusion can be reached. What has been said on these two points should not be regarded as implying that His Majesty’s Government are against what is proposed in the agreement, but that these questions are still under consideration. To prevent mis-understanding, it may be explained that the Government regard the figure 18 per cent, for the percentage of British India general seats at the Centre to be reserved for the Depressed Classes as a matter for settlement between them and other Hindus. (Applause). 1* “In the evening prayers were said in the Prison yard. Kasturba then handed Gandhi orange juice, and he broke his fast about half-past five amidst a gathering of some two hundred disciples and admirers, poet Tagore, Sarojini Naidu, Sardar Patel and Swarup Rani Nehru being conspicuous.” 2 1: (The Legislative Assembly Debates-Official Report—Volume V. 1932, Pp. 1307-1308, Monday, 26th September, 1932).” Reprinted, Khairmode, Vol. 5, Pp. 57-59. 2: Keer, P. 215. * For comments on Round Table Conference and Poona Pact—See appendix-V