Vol. 17, Part I · pages 261–265

236 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES individually and collectively by propaganda, constructive work and in other ways for securing for the Harijans, freedom to reside and settle in localities inhabited by non-Harijan Hindus for abolishing Untouchability in public places, such as wells, schools, dharamshalas and hotels and in general for doing away with Untouchability in the Hindu society with regard to all other matters.” Mr. Pradhan expressed the deputationists deep respect and love for Dr. Ambedkar and declared that they were anxious to solve the problem arising out of Dr. Ambedkar’s speech at Yeola with his cooperation and consultation. Mr. Pradhan said that they all desired to dissuade Dr. Ambedkar. from changing his religion, Mr. Pradhan conveyed Shri Shankaracharya’s deep affection for Dr. Ambedkar. “Remove Basis of ‘Smriti’ religion” Dr. Ambedkar’s Demand In the course of the interview, which lasted over three hours, Dr. Ambedkar said: “Whatever may be the metaphysical basis of a religion, those religious principles upon which depend the ethical system and the social practices of a people must be considered to be the principal element of that religion. Though Hinduism is based on the conception of Absolute Brahma the practices of the Hindu community as a whole are founded on the doctrines of inequality as pronounced in ‘Manusmriti’. Some people think that religion is not essential to society. I do not hold this view. I consider the foundation of religion to be essential to the life and practices of society. At the root of the Hindu Social System lies Dharma as prescribed in ‘Manusmriti’. Such being the case I do not think it possible to abolish inequality in the Hindu Society unless the existing foundation of the ‘Smriti’ religion is removed and a better one laid in its place. I, however, despair of the Hindu Society being able to reconstruct on such a better foundation.” Referring to the position of Harijans in the coming constitution, Dr. Ambedkar said that the cause of removal of Untouchability and of social reform would not advance with the help of the legislatures under the new constitution.

237REMOVE...............‘SMRITI’ RELIGION About abjuring the Hindu religion, Dr. Ambedkar declared: “Personally, I have made up my mind to change my religion. I am not able to tell you today what other religion I will accept. But I do not intend to secure any personal gain by the change of religion. It is not a personal question and I desire to carry with me the whole Untouchable community at all events the majority of that community, I do not want it to be split up by some joining one religion or sect and other another. From the point of view of the interests to my community it is necessary that it should be united with and absorbed into some powerful and living community. It is my intention to make this movement for change of religion an all India one. If my community does not follow me then I will alone change my religion. This may take at least four or five years and you will have this period for doing what you can. Before the final decision is made we shall of course consider what success your efforts may have met with. I admit the work before you is tremendous. But if it cannot be accomplished except after a very long period we are not prepared to wait for such a length of time.” New Sect Referring to the offer made by Dr. Kurtakoti, regarding his creation of a new order and throwing it open to the Untouchables in common with others on equal footing and status, Dr. Ambedkar said : “I shall not undertake the responsibility of starting a new sect nor will I advise my community to join it. Let Dr. Kurtakoti start the sect if he so desires and let it spread among the ‘touchables’ and then we shall think over it. I cannot say today what the Harijans will think of it if it is established. Their attitude towards it will depend upon its numerical strength and upon the extent to which it will promote the uplift of the Harijan community. We shall consider whether to join it or not just as we may consider whether or not to join any other sect, but such a sect must be of a living religion There are some difficulties in the way of our accepting Buddhism. I think that the Harijan community should be completely absorbed into some powerful community. It has decided not to join the Arya Samaj. We shall consider the question of joining the Sikh religion.

238 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Referring to the attitude of Harijans towards the Harijan Sevak Sangh, Dr. Ambedkar declared : “The Harijan Sevak Sangh is not likely to advance the cause of the abolition of Untouchability. That Sangh is merely a wing of the Congress.” Dr. Ambedkar, continuing, said: “Democracy is not suitable to India and popular Government will not do for her. India wants a dictator, a Kemal Pasha or a Mussolini. I had hoped that Mr. Gandhi would attain the position of dictator, but I am disappointed. My complaint is not that Mr. Gandhi is a dictator, but that he is not. I feel the greatest respect for Kemal Pasha, it is he that has made Turkey into a powerful nation. If there are any people with whose religious sentiments and practices it is extremely risky to interfere, they are the Muslims. But Kemal Pasha has done it with success. Without a leader of the stamp of Kemal Pasha, there will be no salvation for India. But in the circumstances, it is impossible to get such a dictator in social and religious matters and hence I despair of the future of India.” Younger Generation Referring to the attitude of the younger generation and the Harijans Dr. Ambedkar is said to have declared: “I am not hopeful of the younger generation which seems to be more predisposed to pleasure seeking and not possessing much of idealism and is not likely to produce men of ideals, principles and actions like Ranade, Tilak or Gokhale. This also fills me with despair. “In brief, being born in the Untouchable community, I deem it my first duty to strive for its interest and my duty to India as a whole is secondary. I have strong religious sentiment according to my own conception of religion, but I have no faith in Hinduism and I hate hypocrisy. I have therefore, decided to renounce Hinduism, but I do not intend to do so immediately as I want to carry my community with me. The Harijan army is not marching today and it is watching and waiting for a suitable opportunity. In the meanwhile, the ‘touchables’ may go on making their efforts on the lines chalked out by you.” 1 zz 1: The Times of India, dated 30th November 1935.

11 HINDUS SHOULD NOT BE INDIFFERENT TO CONVERSION OF DEPRESSED CLASSES Regarding conversion, “Dr. B. R. Ambedkar consulted his colleagues from different provinces in the matter of choosing the proper religion for conversion. He had now decided to embrace Sikhism. His friends and colleagues felt that Dr. Ambedkar should seek the support of the Hindu Sabha leaders in their conversion to Sikhism; for, the Hindu Sabha leaders believed that Sikhism was not an alien religion. It was an off-spring of Hinduism and therefore the Sikhs and the Hindus intermarried and the Sikhs were allowed to be members of the Hindu Mahasabha. Accordingly, Dr. Moonje, the spokesman of the Hindu Mahasabha, was invited to Bombay. In the presence of two other friends, Dr. Ambedkar had a talk with Dr. Moonje at Rajgriha, on June 18, 1936, at half past-seven that night. Dr. Ambedkar cleared all issues and had a free talk with Dr. Moonje. Next day the purport of Dr. Ambedkar’s views was reduced to a statement and was given to Dr. Moonje who approved of it personally.” 1 The following is the statement:— The Hindus cannot afford to be indifferent to the movement of conversion which is gaining ground among the Depressed Classes. It would undoubtedly be the best thing from the standpoint of the Hindus if the Depressed Classes were to be persuaded to drop the idea of conversion. But if that is not possible, then the Hindus must concern themselves with the next move which the Depressed Classes will take, because their move is bound to have serious consequences upon the destiny of the country. If they cannot be persuaded to stay, the Hindus must help if they cannot lead them, to embrace a faith which will be least harmful to the Hindus and to the country. It seems very unlikely that the Depressed Classes will formulate a new religion. Most probably, they will embrace one of the existing faiths. At any rate the Hindus can well proceed on that assumption. The first question is what is the faith that the Depressed Classes are likely to embrace? Obviously, the one most advantageous to them. 1: Keer. P. 277.

240 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES There are three faiths from among which the Depressed Classes can choose. (l) Islam, (2) Christianity and(3) Sikhism. Comparing these three, Islam seems to give the Depressed Classes all that they need. Financially, the resources behind Islam are boundless. Socially, the Mohammedans are spread all over India. There are Mohammedans in every Province and they can take care of the new converts from the Depressed Classes and render them all help. Politically the Depressed Classes will get all the rights which Mohammedans are entitled to. Conversion to Islam does not involve loss of such political rights as the right to special representation in the Legislatures, right to services, etc. Christianity seems equally attractive. If Indian Christians are too small numerically to provide financial resources necessary for the conversion of the Depressed Classes, the Christian countries such as America and England will pour their immense resources in if the Depressed Classes show their readiness to embrace Christianity. Socially, the Christian community is numerically too weak to render much support to the converts from the Depressed Classes but Christianity has the Government behind it. Politically, Christianity will give them the same rights which Islam gives. Like the Muslims, Indian Christians are also recognised by the Constitution for special representation in the Legislature and in the services. Compared to Christianity and Islam, Sikhism has few attractions. Being a small community to forty lakhs, the Sikhs cannot provide the finance. They are confined to the Punjab and as far as the majority of the Depressed Classes are concerned, the Sikhs can give them no social support. Politically, Sikhism is at a positive disadvantage as compared with Islam or Christianity. Outside the Punjab, the Sikhs are not recognised for special representation in the Legislature and in the services. The second question is, looking at these three alternative faiths purely from the standpoint of the Hindus, which is the best—Islam, Christianity or Sikhism? Obviously Sikhism is the best. If the Depressed Classes join Islam or Christianity, they not only go out of the Hindu religion but they also go out of the Hindu culture. On the other hand, if they become Sikhs they remain within the Hindu culture. This is by no means a small advantage to the Hindus.