Vol. 17, Part I · pages 81–85

56 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Dr. Ambedkar was somewhat sure about particular reply which Mr. Gandhi had given him in an interview on the previous day. He said he had asked Mr. Gandhi in anticipation of his going to the R, T. C. whether he was prepared to accept the decision of the Conference that the Depressed Classes should be given political recognition in the new constitution and like other minorities, should be given political safeguards and adequate representation in the legislatures. Dr. Ambedkar complained that Mr. Gandhi refused to uphold that view and said that if he went to the Round Table Conference he would tell them that the conference might do what they liked, but in his opinion the suggestion was absolutely suicidal so far as the Depressed Classes were concerned.” 1 zz 1. The Times of India, dated 17th August 1931.

2 WHY I SHOULD BE PROUD OF THAT RELIGION...... “At the Ballard Pier, Dr. B. R. Ambedkar received a telegram from Gandhi asking him to see the latter in Yeravda Jail. Dr. Ambedkar wired back to Gandhi that he would see him on his return from Delhi. The next day Dr. Ambedkar received a wire from Dr. Ba Maw of Rangoon which said : “Burma anti-separatist leaders proceeding to Delhi next week to meet Indian leaders during the Assembly session. They are anxious to discuss Burma constitutional situation with you and other leaders. We, therefore, request you to meet the deputation in Delhi on 4th and 5th February. Kindly wire your Delhi address to enable us to get in touch with you there. Reply U Chit Hlaing, 80, Hermitage Rd., Rangoon,—U Chit Hlaing and Dr. Ba Maw.” Several congratulatory messages were received in Dr. Ambedkar’s office from all quarters of the country. One of them was from the Thiya Yuvajan Samaj of Ernakulam, congratulating their great leader gratefully on the bold fight he gave at the Round Table Conference for the rights and liberties of the Depressed Classes and the people of the Native States. Immediately Dr. Ambedkar left Bombay for Delhi to attend the informal meeting of delegates to the Round Table Conference convened by the Viceroy. After his return from Delhi, he wired to Gandhi that he would be able to see him on the 4th February. Gandhi informed Dr. Ambedkar by wire on February 3 : “Wire just received tomorrow 12-30 will suit—Gandhi.” It is clear that Dr. Ambedkar could not meet the Burma delegation in Delhi as he wanted to see Gandhi in Yeravda Jail on February 4, 1933. Accompanied by S. N. Shivtarkar, Dolas, Upasham, Kowly, Ghorpade and Keshavrao Jedhe, Dr. Ambedkar entered Yeravda Jail at 12-30, on February 4. In a happy mood Gandhi got up and welcomed the visitors. After a while, the conversation turned to the question of temple entry. Gandhi requested Dr. Ambedkar to lend his support to Dr. Subbarayan’s Bill and that of Ranga Iyer. Dr. Ambedkar flatly refused to have anything to do with

58 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Subbarayan’s Bill, since the Bill did not condemn Untouchablility as a sin. It only said that if a referendum favoured the temple entry, temples should be thrown open to the Depressed Classes, but said nothing of their right to worship the deity in the temples. He told Gandhi that the Depressed Classes did not want to be Shudras in the order of the caste system and added that he honestly could not call himself a Hindu. Why, he asked, he should be proud of that religion which condemned him to a de-graded position. If that system was to continue, he had no use of the benefits of the temple entry. Gandhi said that according to him the caste system was not a bad system. He continued : “Let the touchable Hindus have an opportunity to expiate their sins and purify Hinduism. Do not be indifferent to this question. Sanatanists and Government would take advantage of this. If this reformation takes place, the Untouchables would rise in society.” Dr. Ambedkar differed from Gandhi. He was convinced that if the Untouchables made progress in the economic, educational and political fields, temple entry would follow automatically.” 1 zz 1 : Keer, Pp. 226-227

3 WHAT MORE GANDHI EXPECTED FROM THE SANATANISTS ? “Dr. B. R. Ambedkar decided to sound Gandhi on the question of the panel and primary elections of the Depressed Class candidates in the light of the coming constitution of India. He was in a hurry to make preparations for his departure to London. Yet he had to attend meetings, to attend courts or dispose of the cases, to make arrangements for domestic affairs, and to select books. Accompanied by Mr. More, Shinde, Gaikwad and Chavan, he saw Gandhi on April 23, 1933 in Yeravda Jail. Gandhi and Ambedkar sat in chairs under the mango tree and Mahadev Desai sat nearby with a note book and pencil. At first Dr. Ambedkar said that the method of panel would be expensive and told Gandhi that candidates from the Depressed Classes, who would contest the general election, should have secured at least 25 per cent of the votes of the Depressed Classes in the primary election. Gandhi replied that he would give consideration to the matter and would inform him about his reaction to his London address. Gandhi, then, gave a bunch of flowers to Dr. Ambedkar and diverted the conversation to the question of removal of Untouchability and said that the Sanatanists were decrying him (Gandhi) as a devil, Daitya. Dr. Ambedkar asked Gandhi what more he expected from the Sanatanists ! Gandhi caught the thread and said that the leader of the Depressed Classes himself was not pleased with his work. In the end Gandhi asked Ambedkar about the date of his return from London. Dr. Ambedkar replied that it would be about August 1933. Gandhi wished Dr. Ambedkar bon voyage and the interview ended.” 1 zz 1. Keer, P. 238.

4 TO TAKE LEGAL STEPS AGAINST HIGH CASTE HINDUS WHO HARASSED UNTOUCHABLES “ Talk with Dr. Ambedkar “Dr. B. R. Ambedkar and members of his group had a lengthy talk with Mahatma Gandhi at Mani Bhuvan on Saturday, the 16th June 1934 morning on the question of the progress of the Harijan Movement has done since Gandhiji launched the campaign against Untouchability. Gandhiji, it appears, told the deputationists that his tour in more than 200 villages had impressed him with the fact that the movement against Untouchability was making rapid progress and the evil is slowly dying away. Dr. Ambedkar is stated to have a different view from this view and said that Gandhiji’s presence in a village or place, created an abnormal atmosphere as the presence of a saint or sadhu would do, and people temporarily forget the difference. Gandhi was, therefore, not in a position to judge the exact situation. He is also stated to have suggested to Gandhiji that the Harijan Board should render financial assistance to Harijans to take legal steps against High Caste Hindus who harassed the former. Gandhiji is stated to have replied that persuasion was the best method of removing the evil and that the question of giving legal aid would have to be considered by the Board. One of the members of the deputation is stated to have asked Gandhiji whether the Harijan Board would be in existence after August 7 ? upto which time Gandhiji is under a vow to take part only in non-political activities. The same member asked Gandhiji, if he had received any divine inspiration as to his future action. Gandhiji replied that he had received none so far and restored, “If you want you can as well receive inspiration from God.” Ambedkar Deputation The members of the Deputation led by Dr. Ambedkar who met Mahatma Gandhi on Saturday were :— Mr. G. V. Naik Dr. P. G. Solanki Mr. Amritrao Khambe, and Mr. Baburao Gaikwad.” l 1 : The Bombay Chronicle, dated 17th June 1934.