Vol. 1 · pages 291–295

276 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES He suggested the lowering of the franchise qualification in the case of the depressed classes, as it should be the object of the Government to improve the lot of the community. From an examination of the Census Report he would say that the problem of touchable and non-touchable existed in Sind, as although the greater proportion of the population there were Mohammedans, there were also Hindus. If special provision was going to be made for the Hindus in Sind, he did not see why special provision should not be made for the depressed classes also. Mr. Banerjee: The depressed classes would be able to find 9 men who were able to speak English and who could represent their cause in the Council. The 6th standard was the class below the matriculation, and a man who had passed the 6th standard would be able to follow the debates in the Council. They had about 25 persons who had passed that standard. For political purposes there would be no difficulty in defining the depressed classes, who were the same as the untouchables. No one who was not a member of a depressed class would think of trying to make himself out to be such, though such a thing might occur in the case of the backward classes. He would accept 8 representatives as the minimum for the depressed classes, and they should be elected. Nominated representative would not be in a position adequately to represent their interests. Mr. Crump: He had no experience of the problem and conditions of the untouchable classes in Sind, and could not say anything with regard to the statement that there was only one such class, viz., the Bhangis, there- His information was that the total Hindu population in Sind was 837,426 and the total of the untouchable classes was 135,224. Mr. Natarajan: His view was that British rule in India was meant to provide equal opportunities for all, and that in transferring a large share of the power to popular assemblies, arrangements should be made whereby the hardships and disabilities entailed by the social system should not be reproduced and perpetuated in political institutions. As regards the exact position at present, he admitted that, for instance, at the Parel school which was meant for the depressed classes, there were many higher-caste pupils, who came there because it was a good school. Similarly as a professor he, being a member of a depressed class, had pupils of all classes and found no difficulty in dealing with his higher caste pupils. If the untouchable classes were recognized by Government by the grant of seats, their status would be raised and their powers would be stimulated. He was not very particular about the number of their seats; all he wanted was something adequate. zz

277 EVIDENCE BEFORE THE SOUTHBOROUGH COMMITTEE The following persons were called and examined at Bombay between 24 January 1919 and 31 January 1919: (1) L. C. Cramp, Esq., I.C.S. representing the Government of Bombay (24 January 1919). (2) The Hon’ble Major C. Fernandez, M. D. I. M. S. (Temporary) (24 January 1919). (3) The Rev. Cannon D. L. Joshi, representing the Bombay Indian Christian (Protestant) Association (24 January 1919). (4) Lieut. Colonel H.A.J. Gidney, I.M.S. (Retired), representing the Anglo-Indian Empire League (Bombay Branch) (25 January 1919). (5) Sir Jamsetjee Jejeebhoy, BART (25 January 1919). (6) W. A. Haig Brown, Esq., representing the Bombay Branch of the European Association (25 January 1919). (7) Mr. D. D. Sathaye, representing the Bombay National Union (25 January 1919). (8) The Hon’ble Mr. M. A. Jinnah (25 January 1919). (9) Mr. C. N. Wadia, representing the Bombay Millowners Association (27 January 1919). (10) Mr. V. R. Shinde (27 January 1919). (11) Mr. K. R. Koregawkar, representing the Maratha Aikyecchu Sabha (27 January 1919). (12) The Hon’ble Mr. M.A. Jinnah (27 January 1919). (13) Mirza Ali Muhamad Khan (27 January 1919). (14) Bhimrao R. Ambedkar Esq. (27 January 1919). (15) The Hon’ble Mr. V. J. Patel (28) January 1919). (16) The Hon’ble Sahib Hiralal Desaibhai Desai (28 January 1919). (17) The Hon’ble Mr. Chunilal V. Mehta (28 January 1919). (18) A. B. Latthe, Esq. (28 January 1919). (19) The Hon’ble Mr. R. P. Paranjpye (28 January 1919). (20) Mr. V. R. Kothari, representing the Deccan Ryots’ Association (28 January 1919). (21) Messrs. Umar Sobhani and S. G. Banker, representing the Bombay Home Rule League (29 January 1919). (22) H. N. Apte Esq., representing the Deccan Sabha, Poona (23 January 1919). (23) N. C. Kelkar Esq. (29 January 1919). (24) The Hon’ble Mr. D. V. Belvi (29 January 1919). (25) Rao Bahadur Thakorram Kapilram (29 January 1919). (26) N. M- Joshi Esq., Member of the Servants of India Society (30 January 1919). (27) The Hon’ble Rao Bahadur Venkatesh Srinivas Naik (30 January 1919). (28) Pandit R. Chikodi (30 January 1919).

278 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES (29) The Hon’ble Mr. S. J. Gillum and Sir Thomas Birkett, Kt., representing the Bombay Chamber of Commerce (30 January 1919). (30) Mr. Ambalal Sarabhai with Mr. Kasturbhai Lalbhai, Dalpatbhai representing the Ahmadabad Miliowners’ Association (30 January 1919). (31) Devidas Madhavji Thakersey, Esq., representing the Bombay Native Piece-goods Merchants Association (30 January 1919). (32) The Hon’ble Mr. Ghulam Hussain Hidayatulla (31 January 1919). (33) Mr. B. V. Jadhav (31 January 1919). (34) The Hon’ble Sir Pazulbhoy Currimbhoy, Kt., C.I.E. (31 January 1919). (35) H. P. Mody Esq. (31 January 1919). (36) Sardar V. N. Mutalik representing the Inamdars’ Central Association, Satara (31 January 1919). zz

8 TRACTS FOR THE TIMES: No. 3. FEDERATION VERSUS FREEDOM (Kale Memorial Lecture) Address delivered on 29th January 1939 at the Annual Function of the Gokhale Institute of Politics and Economics held in the Gokhale Hall, Poona “The distance you have gone is less important than the direction in which you are going today.” —Tolstoy First Published : 1939 Reprinted from the first edition