Vol. 10 · pages 366–370

349 MUSLIMS HAVE FARED MUCH BETTER....... select 13. Out of the 13 there was only one Muslim whom we could select. Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan : Out of 40 names. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Yes. The names were given in order of merit and we had only 13 posts. Obviously we had to stop with the 13. If we had stopped with the 13, there was only one Muslim in that list of 13. As I said, these posts are technical posts and therefore we had to be very certain about the qualification. If the Labour Department had stuck to their original proposition that they shall only take men recommended by the Federal Public Service Commission on a purely meritorious basis, they would have had only one Muslim Candidate but the Labour Department knowing that tills would not be satisfactory from the point of view of the Muslims went down the list and picked 3 candidates who were far below 13 in order to make up their quota of 4. Another thing we have done and which I know some people might regard as very improper is this. We found that in the office of the Director General of Geological Survey there were no Muslim officers. What did we do. We selected two Muslim students from the University represented by my Honourable friend Sir Zia Uddin Ahmed..... Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : The credit does not go to you. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : They were not geologists by their training. They had qualified themselves only in geography but notwithstanding this we selected two. We trained them so that they may be subsequently, recruited to the office of the Geological Survey. Now, Sir, I come to the School of Mines. There were some questions in the last Assembly on that. May I know, Sir, how much more time I have. Mr. President : The Honourable Member can have 20 minutes. I am prepared to give him more time if necessary. He can go on till 1/15. Shri Sri Prakasa (Benares and Gorakhpur Divisions—NonMuhammadan Rural): You can take 25 per cent of the time. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I do not wish to deal with this subject in that half-philanthropic and half-flippant manner that my friend has done.

350 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Shri Sri Prakasa : I was not flippant at all. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Coming to the School of Mines, the position is this. We have from 1937 restricted admissions to the School of Mines to 24, originally, there were about 50. It was discovered that there was not sufficient accommodation for such a large number of students and, therefore, it was restricted to 24. Now, the selection for the admission to the college is primarily provincial and not communal. Sixteen seats are allotted to the provinces and two to the Indian States. I had examined the figures up to 1937 and I did not discover any single year in which there were not at least 2 Muslim students, who had sought admission to the School of Mines. I, therefore, did not think that any particular reservation was necessary to safeguard the interests of the Muslim students joining the School of Mines. However, when the matter was pressed by some Members of the Muslim League here, Members of the last Legislative Assembly, I did pass orders that two seats at least should be reserved for the Muslims in the Indian School of Mines. Sir Mohammad Yamin Khan : Out of how many ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Out of 24. Now, Sir, even here I would like to tell the House what steps the Labour Department have taken in order to see that the Muslims are able to realise the full quota which has been reserved for them, and I shall give the figures for this year. This year we have altogether admitted 48 students on the recommendation of the Governing Body. Out of these 48 students there is only one Muslim who had satisfied the qualifying test. Mr. Muhammad Nauman (Patna and Chota Nagpur- cumOrissa, Muhammadan) : That is what I referred to you. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : But, Sir, in order to make good the reservation that was made, it was ordered that the fifty-ninth student, who was a Muslim, may be taken, over-ridding the claims of practically 11 other boys. Now, Sir, I will refer briefly to the various training schemes which have been sponsored by the Labour Department—some overseas—and to show that even here the Labour Department has not only been correct but has been very considerate. I will first refer to the training scheme sponsored by the Labour Department for training of Assistant Geologists in the Melbourne University of Australia, as a part of the

351 MUSLIMS HAVE FARED MUCH BETTER....... re-organisation of the Geological Survey. This took place in 1946. The total number of men that were selected was 9. Out of them, 5 were Hindus, 3 Muslims and 1 of other minorities. It will be seen that in this selection the Muslim proportion has been 33 13 per cent. The second scheme sponsored by the Labour Department was to train men in commercial and administrative side of electricity. Electricity is going to play one of the greatest part in the reconstruction of India’s economic and social life. Obviously, there must be people in India who are trained in the commercial and administrative side of it and we decided to train some men. Obviously, for a training of this sort, you could not take up raw boys from the university. You ought to have some men who have had some experience in this matter. We, therefore, decided to ask the Provincial Governments whether they would suggest names of some of their employees in their Electricity Department for being sent abroad. The selection, therefore, was not a selection made by the Labour Department or in the Government of India. The selection was entirely within the purview and charge of the Provincial Governments. The total number of men selected was 10. Out of them one was a Muslim. He was selected by the Hyderabad State. The other provinces did not suggest the name of any Muslim. I do not know why. Probably because there were not any Muslims in their Electricity Department. Khan Abdul Ghani Khan (North-West Frontier ProvinceGeneral) : In the Frontier Province there are about 90 per cent, Muslims in the Electricity Department. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I am sorry, but your Province did not recommend any Muslim name. You had better address a question in the Assembly of the Frontier province. I am coming now to three other schemes which were sponsored by the Labour Department for training abroad. One was the Bevin training scheme. The total number of boys who were sent was 787. Out of them, Muslims were 154, or 19 per cent. Then, we have in the Government of India a scheme for training Labour Officers for welfare purposes. These officers are not selected by the Labour Department, they are selected by the different Departments concerned. And here the position is this. Altogether 23 have, so far, been sent. Out of these 23, 18 are Muslims, which is a proportion of 79 per cent. Then. Sir, we have

352 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES another scheme which is a scheme for giving higher technical training to the employees of private employers. The Government of India circularised private employers that in view of the necessity of improving technical efficiency of Indians if they desire to send any of their employees for training abroad, the Government of India in the Labour Department would do their best to secure opportunities for training in foreign countries. In this connection, so far, 6 men have been sent. Unfortunately, there was no Muslim amongst them, but that certainly is not the fault of the Labour Department, because they were not responsible for the training. Now, Sir, another point which I would refer to is the recruitment of what are called project Officers and Utilisation Officers and 8 of what are called Project Officers. These appointments, again, had to be filled through the Federal Public Service Commission. Unfortunately, there was no Muslim among the 9 posts that were filled. In this connection, I would like to draw the attention of the Mover of the cut motion to the correspondence which the Labour Department had with the Federal Public Services Commission. We queried when we got the selection and found that there was not a single Muslim. I asked my Department to address a query to the Federal Public Service Commission as to why there was no Muslim in the names that they had suggested. The reply of the Fedral Public Service Commission was this. It is interesting, I think, because it throws a different light on the subject. The Federal Public Service Commission said that, in response to their advertisement, altogether 240 applications were received. Out of that number, only 8 were Muslims, and out of these 8 Muslims, they invited 3 for interview. Out of three, they found not one suitable for the post. Well, Sir, this is in brief a record of the Labour Department in the matter of communal representation. I claim, Sir, that during the period that I have occupied this post, it can be fairly said that the position of Muslims far from having deteriorated has considerably advanced. Sir, I do not claim anything more for the Department in which I hold charge. I should like to conclude just by making two observations. I have no idea how many Honourable Members of the Muslim League Party know what I played in the issue of this communal Ratio Resolution. I think if any Member of the Muslim League Party was present when the Round Table Conference was held in London,

353 MUSLIMS HAVE FARED MUCH BETTER....... he would very well realise that among those who fought for securing these privileges to the minority communities, I claim that I have played a considerable part. It cannot therefore be said that I am out of sympathy with the demand of the Muslims or the demand of any other minority community. It is for this that I have fought, it is for this I have been fighting, and it is for this that I will fight. The second proposition that I should like to make, if my Honourable Colleague, the Home Member would permit me to say so, is that the action which he promised the House that he will take in order to see that the Government of India will not be merely content with rearguard action on the various Departments making default in this matter but that he will take some substantial steps so that as and when appointments are made, proper check is applied at the time, the credit must go to me because it is I who wrote to him a letter that this state of affairs ought to be rectified. I do not want to say anything more. Mr. Ahmed E.H. Jaffer : On a point of information, Sir, I want to know whether in the figures which he just now quoted, are the appointments in the resettlement also included ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Yes, it is a consolidated section of the Labour Secretariat. Mr. Ahmed E.H. Jaffer : Including resettlement. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I have so many figures. I must say they are so interesting that if my Honourable friend wants, I am quite prepared to pass it on to him for his further study. zz