Vol. 10 · pages 371–375

62 * The Indian Finance Bill The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar (Labour Member) : Mr. President, I must at the outset thank you for the opportunity that you have given me to intervene in the discussion on the Finance Bill. Sir, I say so because the points on which I propose to dwell are not points which refer to the Labour Department of which I am in charge. In fact, so far as the discussions on the Finance Bill have gone, I am glad to say that no serious comment has been made against that Department. But I rise because I feel that my Honourable friend, Pandit Govind Malaviya, yesterday in speaking on the Finance Bill made certain observations with regard to the project of a college for the scheduled castes. Sir, ordinarily that matter I should have left in the hands of the representative of the Education Department to deal with because that project was examined by them and the Finance Department sanctioned it. All the part that I have played was to initiate the measure. But, Sir, the reason why I have thought it necessary not to leave the defence of that project in the hands of the representative of the Education Department is because I find that in presenting the case against that project I think my Honourable friend sought to give it a political colour. It is because of that I have risen today to reply to the comments that he made. My Honourable friend started by saying that he was amazed at the project, and when I read his speech I found that the amazement which he felt was based upon his understanding that this was nothing but the introduction of a sectarian spirit in the educational field. Sir, there is a proverb, and a very well known proverb, that a man who lives in glass houses should not throw stones. I wonder whether my Honourable friend, Pandit Malaviya, recognizes this fact. I am far more than *Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol., IV-No. 7, 26th March 1946, pp. 2926-31.

355 THE INDIAN FINANCE BILL amazed—I am astonished—that Mr. Malaviya should have risen up in his seat to preach nationalising to me or to any Member of this House. It is not a new thing to anybody that, so far as his personal habits are concerned. I think it is true to say that he will not even take water not only from an ordinary Hindu but I know he will not take water even from a Brahmin of another caste. Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar (Madras Ceded Districts and Chittoor : Non-Muhammadan Rural) : He does equal justice ! Shri Sri Prakasa : Even Brahmins can be stupid ! The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : His ideals, if I may say so, are the ideals of rat who believes that in order to keep his personal purity he must live in a hole by himself without any contract with any human being. And I should have thought that a man who believes in that kind of a thing should certainly think twice before talking against sectarianism or preaching nationhood to the people of this country. I should have thought that he ought to have known that he was or he is a great deal concerned with an institution which we all know as the Benares Hindu University. If it is not a sectarian institution, I would like to know what is a sectarian institution. Sir, I know and I can say that this University is not even a Hindu university ; it is a University which is managed in the interest of that particular community. I would like to ask my Honourable friend whether it is not a fact that on the staff of the Benares Hindu University there are hardly any non-Brahmins. An Honourable Member : There are. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I would like to ask him whether there is not a standing resolution of the Benares Hindu University Court passed in 1916 whereby a non-Brahmin, no matter how well he is educated in Hindu Dharma (in Hindu Law) is not entitled to function as a Professor of Hindu Religion. I would like to ask him whether he has forgotten that only a few months ago a Kayashtha girl had to go on fast because she was refused admission in the Benares Hindu University in the Faculty of Theology. If that is not sectarianism, I would like to ask what it is. As I was reading the proceedings of the debate yesterday, I found my Honourable friend, Mr. Ayyangar, uttering an exclamation, which is recorded by the Official Reporter, on a separate college for the

356 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Scheduled Castes. I wonder whether he is aware of what has recently happened in that town of Salem. He probably is forgetful of it. Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : I do not know. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Or he is so much preoccupied with politics that he did not know what his own community members are doing. I like him to peruse the papers of the ‘Hindu’ of Madras, not of some past year but of the 12th of this month. He will find that Salem Brahmans met in a solemn conclave for the purpose of establishing a Brahman Sangh, for the purpose of protecting the interests of Brahmans, for the purpose of starting a college for Brahmans, for the purpose of starting industries for Brahmans. And who was the President of that Conference ? The great man Sachivotama Sir C.P. Ramaswami Ayer. Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : Your erstwhile colleague. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : I do not know. When everybody in this country while talking of nationalism is practising sectarianism.......... Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : I am sorry for both. The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : ....... for Members to come here and to tell a struggling community like that of the Scheduled Castes, who for the first time in their life have become conscious of their disabilities and are trying to found educational institutions in which they will be able to get higher education that they are acting in a sectarian spirit to my judgment is nothing short of imprudence. I would like to tell this House that it is complete misnomer to say that this is a Scheduled Caste college. It is a college which like any other college is open to every community. There is no bar to any body. Pandit Govind Malaviya (Allahabad and Jhansi Divisions : Non-Muhammadan Rural): What is stated in the Budget ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : The Budget was before you for full one month, and you ought to have put a short notice question to ask for full details before you got up to oppose it. Now, as I said this is an institution which is open to every community. The college is not only open to all but the staff selected is also cosmopolitan. There are Hindus, there are Brahmins, there are non-Brahmins, there are Parsis, there are Christians, there are Muslims on the staff. And I like to tell the House that when the affiliation application came before

357 THE INDIAN FINANCE BILL the University of Bombay they had not the slightest hesitation to granting affiliation. In fact it was admitted that there was never such a project placed before the University of Bombay during all these years so sell thought out. And if I may say so, this is the first instance in the whole history of the Bombay University where permission has been given to start a full-fledged college at the start. This is because, the organisation, the staff and the arrangements have been so good. The College therefore is in no sense a Scheduled Caste College. The only thing which the College will do so far as the Scheduled Castes are concerned is to give them preferential treatment in the matter of admissions and freeships and reservation in the hostel. I like to tell the House why the establishment of this college became necessary. Honourable Members are probably not aware that the Bombay Province at present is suffering from a terrible congestion of the student population. My Honourable friend, sitting opposite, Mr. Gadgil, will know that during last year nineteen new colleges were allowed to be opened by the Bombay University, That shows how difficult it is for boys to get admission. The Scheduled Caste boys suffered the most from this congestion because the Scheduled Caste boys after passing their matriculation were not able to get their admission in the different colleges. I therefore represented the matter to the Government of India that there should be an institution whose primary function should be to give preferential treatment to these boys. There is nothing else in this project which may be called sectarian or which may be called communal. Now, Sir, there was another matter which my Honourable, friend introduced, and I am at a loss to understand why he introduced it. He introducted politics and he said that so far as the elections were concerned, I was a wash out. I do not know what he wanted to convey. But I believe what he wanted to do was to give a hint that I should not have been listed to by the Government of India, or some such thing, which I do not know. Pandit Govind Malaviya : Don’t you ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Well, Sir, from what has happened in the elections it may be said that I am now a withered plant. But I like to tell my Honourable friends opposite that I am not dead at the roots. Not at all. My Honourable friend talked about the results

358 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES of the election. He said that the Scheduled Caste seats were won by the Congress. Yes, they were. But what I like to ask my Honourable friend is, does he care to examine the ways and means by which this victory was obtained by the Congress ? Prof. N.G. Ranga : We are ready ! The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar: I would like to tell my friend of the ways and means that were adopted. Sri M. Ananthasayanam Ayyangar : The usual accusation! The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not the usual accusation. It is a matter of proof which can be put to the test. Prof. N.G. Ranga : Do not tread on doubtful ground ! The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend ought to know that in many places the Untouchable voters have not been allowed to go even to the polls. I am referring to a case in the Satara District, which ought to be familiar to many Members of this House because in that district there was in existence what is called a parallel government. The Scheduled Caste voters from 361 villages were taken to the village Katcheri by the Hindu villagers. They were asked whether they were prepared to vote for the Congress candidate. When they refused, they were asked to sit in the Katcheri and a watch and ward was kept around them. They were not allowed to move. I can give many cases. Pandit Govind Malaviya : Yes ? please do ! The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Even the candidates of the Scheduled Caste opposed to the Congress were assaulted. Take a nearer case like that of Agra which has happened only recently. Fifty houses of the Untouchables were burnt on the day of election. Some twenty houses were looted in the absence of the voters who had been to the polls. In Cawnpore seven persons were murdered. Diwan Chaman Lall (West Punjab : Non-Muhammadan): Who looted ? The Honourable Dr. B.R. Ambedkar : Hindus. Those are the ways and means by which these elections have been won. (Interruptions). I would like to tell my Honourable friend that the test whether the Congress has won these seats, or whether the Scheduled Castes Federation, which I represent, has won these seats, is to be decided not by the final elections. It would be stupid to do so. In a final election