Vol. 10 · pages 801–805

780 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES the earlier period of the grant, this expenditure has achieved the objects, for which it was sanctioned. With effect from the 1st June 1944 the accounts will be prepared in the Federation’s office by a qualified accountant, and these will be available to audit in the ordinary way. (c) The grant was mentioned in an objection by the All-India Trade Union Congress made to the International Labour Office as regards the credentials of the workers’ representatives in the Indian delegation. The Credentials Committee, in its report which was adopted by the Conference, asked the Conference to regard the Workers’ delegate of India and his advisers at that session of the Conference as duly accredited. The Committee’s report did not mention the grant but stated as follows : “It does not doubt that the Government of India will continue its endeavours to make provision for the representation of both organisations in an appropriate manner at future sessions of the Conference and ventures to hope that the two organisations will reach an agreement, which will secure the effective participation in the International Labour Organisation of representatives of all sections of the Indian Trade Union movement. The Committee understands that, failing such an agreement, the Indian Workers’ delegate to the next session of the Conference will be appointed in agreement with the All-India Trade Union Congress.” (d) (Second part) The monthly grant is spent on publications of printed literature, oral propaganda, visual publicity and the disseminating of reassuring news. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know the object for which the grant has been given ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The answer will be found in my answer to part (d) (second part). It states that the grant is spent on publication of printed literature, oral propaganda, visual publicity and the disseminating of reassuring news about war. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Are the Government satisfied that the money given by them has been spent on those items alone ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Yes, they are satisfied. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar: May I know if the Government are aware that part of this money has been spent on anti-Congress propaganda ?

781L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : They have no information. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : Will they inquire into the matter ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have stated in my answer that with effect from the 1st of June, 1944, the accounts will be prepared in the Federation’s Office by a qualified accountant and these will be available to audit in the ordinary way. Sardar Mangal Singh : May I know whether this payment is made monthly or yearly ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no information on this point in front of me. I suppose it is made monthly. Sardar Mangal Singh : Is it paid to the Secretary or the President ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: To some responsible officer of the organisation concerned. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I know what is the subject of this propaganda and the subjects of the publications issued ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is pro-war propaganda and pro-war literature. Mr. Badri Dutt Pande : Will the Honourable Member be prepared to place the audited accounts on the table of the House ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : When it is audited, it will be placed on the table and will be available to the Members in the ordinary way. Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : What is the period covered for which there have been no accounts ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : For the earlier period; we have not got the exact accounts but we have now made arrangements that the accounts will be kept by an officer of the Audit Department. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: What was the amount ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I am unable to give the figure. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Who is responsible for not keeping these accounts in the earlier period—the Honourable Member himself or the Government or they ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have not followed the question.

782 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mr Lalchand Navalrai: The Honourable Member said that for some period no accounts were kept. The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: I have not said that no accounts were kept. What I said was : They are satisfied that, although full and regular accounts are not available for the earlier period of the grant, the money has been spent in the manner in which the Government desired it should be spent. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Is the Government satisfied that the money has been spent properly ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to believe to the contrary. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: It is not a question of the Honourable Member believing to the contrary. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim): The Honourable Member is arguing. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : What evidence has the Honourable Member got for thinking that the money has been spent properly ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to believe to the contrary. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: My question was different. How is the Honourable Member able to believe one way or the other ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I have no reason to believe that the amount was not spent regularly. Sardar Sant Singh : May I know if it is only to the satisfaction of the Honourable Member himself or does he take into account that the public has to be satisfied how the money has been spent / How has the Honourable Member satisfied the public ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I do not know how I could satisfy the public but the Government which paid the money is satisfied. Sardar Sant Singh : It is the tax payers’ money that the Government is paying out. How is the Government going to satisfy the taxpayer that the money has been legitimately spent ? (No Answer) Dr. Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad : Was the Finance Member satisfied with the correctness of accounts ?

783L. A. DEBATES (CENTRAL) QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : That question might be addressed to the Honourable the Finance Member. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai : Who is the Secretary and who is the President of this Labour Federation ? Are they paid some salary or money from this fund ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It does not arise. If the Honourable Member will give notice, I will find out the information for him. Mr. T. S. Avinashilingam Chettiar : May I raise a point of order ? Sir Zia Uddin Ahmad asked whether the Finance Member was satisfied and the Labour Member replied that the question might be addressed to the Finance Member. The Member in charge ought to know whether the Finance Member was satisfied or not. He must give the reply. Mr. President (The Honourable Sir Abdur Rahim) : He has given the reply. I cannot ask the Honourable Member to reply in a particular way. 216 * Government Contribution to Indian Labour Federation 32. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: (a) With reference to the reply to my starred question No. 776 given on the 4lh April 1944, will the Honourable the Labour Member be pleased to state whether his attention has been drawn to a statement made by the President, Indian Labour Federation at Bombay in December last, at the 1st Annual Session of the Federation, that it was blackest lie that they were receiving Rs. 13,000 per month from the Government ? (b) Has the Honourable Member’s attention been also drawn to a statement made by Mr. Jamnadas Mehta, President of the Indian Labour Federation on his departure for Philadephia to attend the International Labour Conference meeting, denying the fact of Rs. 13,000 of the Government’s subsidy ? * Legislative Assembly Debates (Central), Vol. IV of 1944, 2nd November 1944, p. 111.

784 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES (c) Is it also a fact that this statement was made in reply to the Honourable the Labour Member’s statement in the House on the 4th April 1944, confirming the fact that a sum of Rs. 13,000 was being given to the Indian Labour Federation ? (d) Is it a fact that the subsidy of Rs. 13,000 is secretly paid to Mr. M. N. Roy ? If so, why is it paid to this particular individual and not to the Indian Labour Federation ? (e) Will the Honourable Member please make a brief statement as to the measures taken by the Indian Labour Federation during the period it has been in receipt of the monthly subsidy to achieve the object, e.g., to assist the Government in maintaining the labour morale ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: (a), (b) and (c) Government’s attention has been drawn to the statements referred to. From the very beginning the arrangement has been with the Indian Federation of Labour and not with any individual. The attention of the Federation was drawn to Mr. Mehta’s statements and in reply the Federation has reaffirmed the fact that the arrangement is with the Federation. (d) As already stated in reply to the preceding question, the grant is publicly made to the Indian Federation of Labour and not personally to Mr. M. N. Roy. (e) The attention of the Honourable Member is invited to my reply to the second part of part (d) of the preceding question. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: The Honourable Member has stated in his reply that the money was given and Mr. Jamnadas Mehta, before he went to Philadephia, made a statement that the money was not given. How does the Honourable Member reconcile this inconsistency ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not for me to reconcile the two statements. Mr. Lalchand Navalrai: Is the Honourable Member correct or not in having made the statement ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : It is not for me to answer that question. Sardar Sant Singh : May I know who is telling this blackest lie, either the Federation or the Government of India ? The Honourable Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : My Honourable friend is free to draw any conclusions that he likes.