Vol. 14, Part II · pages 316–320

1096 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Sardar B. S. Man : Sir, may I seek the help of and invoke the good convention that is here in the House that whenever a law concerning the religious institutions of personal law of persons is concerned, the members of that community should be consulted and that their opinion should weigh ? I am invoking that convention. Will not that convention be made applicable to us here ? If that is made applicable, then the whole trouble will cease and I shall sit down. My argument is, if today you pass this law with the help of the majority in the House—may I be permitted to add—the Hindu majority of the House, because for the first time such terms as communities—Hindus and Sikhs—are being used in this debate and that is the primary bane of this law... Dr. M. M. Das (West Bengal) : On a point of information, Sir……. Sardar B. S. Man : Is it a point of order, Sir ? Otherwise I am not yielding. Dr. M. M. Das: Is the hon. Member speaking on behalf of the Sikhs of the Punjab or on behalf of everyone in the Punjab ? Mr. Deputy Speaker : The Member is not yielding. I will not permit any more interruptions. Sardar B. S. Man : The difficulty is, hon. Members who are not .well acquainted with the law go on interrupting without understanding my point. As I was saying, that was a good convention and……. Mr. Deputy Speaker : That point has already been stressed by the hon. Member, that against the will of the community no personal law should be touched. That point will be considered by the House. The hon. Member may go to his next point. Sardar B. S. Man: Then coming to the marriage laws, here the present set of laws are very rigid. I may be permitted to quote here from no less an authority than my colleague here, Dr. Tek Chand, who has been a distinguished Judge. He has dealt with this point in his own lucid and clear fashion. And let me also add, that this quotation is from one who is not a Sikh himself, nor an agriculturist—a nonagriculturist—but one who is well acquainted with laws and with the Sikh laws and the customs and practices in the Punjab. Well, this is what he says : “ It is well-known that Jats, specially Sikh Jats hold very liberal views on questions relating to marriage, and even at the height of the Brahmanical supremacy, they did not show much inclination to

1097 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL be bound by the cast-iron rules laid down in the later Hindu Smritis interdicting marriage outside the caste, and prescribing elaborate ritual for the performance of the marriage ceremony. Among them (Jats), the re-marriage of widows has all along existed commonly, and chadar-andazi in which the ceremonial has been reduced to the very minimum is one of the recognised forms of marriage.” And this is the view held by a learned Judge who was also a member of the Select Committee, and he has attached a minute of dissent on exactly this same point and on these same lines, that if you were to agree to only prescribed forms of marriages which are not sought to be introduced in this Hindu Code Bill, then you will be taking away from its orbit many forms of marriages which are customary and prevalent among the Sikhs in the Punjab. There is the Kareva marriage which is not a sacramental marriage. That is common in the Punjab. Dr. Ambedkar : What marriage ? Sardar B. S. Man : Kareva marriage, where the man and the woman, without calling anyone, with no priest, learned or otherwise, without going through any ritual, without going round the Granth Saheb or the fire, simply sit together and have a chadar thrown over them and that constitutes the marriage. Chadar-andazi also means the same thing. Shri Amolakh Chand (Uttar Pradesh): Is it a dharmic marriage ? Sardar B. S. Man : No, for the definition of dharma changes from time to time. Manu had his definition of dharma and there is another definition of dharma by Dr. Ambedkar. In this rapidly changing definition of dharma, I would rather not seek protection under such a dharma, but stick to my secular law which is quite clear to me and which I have been practising for long. Shri Amolakh Chand : Are the children legitimate ? Sardar B. S. Man : Quite. I am conscious of the retort of Dr. Ambedkar that he made in his speech last time. He says that when the people of the Punjab talk of marriage, they talk of many other things which…… Mr. Deputy Speaker : I may point out that clause 8 and other clauses or forms of marriage are not necessarily applicable to the hon. Member. The Sikh community may have customs that bring about the relationship of marriage and these alone will be necessary. Why should we labour that point any further ?

1098 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Sardar B. S. Man : My difficulty is, reading his last speech. I find that Dr. Ambedkar has said that Kareva marriages will not be permitted. Then there is clause 8 about other rituals. I may give yet another case where there is neither this Kareva marriage nor a sacramental one, but which is still in practice. Mr. Deputy Speaker : Whatever may be the form of the marriage— may be the covering by a cloth and all that, that is not prevented here. Sardar B. S. Man : If you will kindly permit me. Sir, I will make my point clear. In this form of marriage, they do not go through any ritual, nor even the flimsy ceremony of putting a chadar. If the man and woman have lived long enough in the village as to lead the village community to believe that they are husband and wife, irrespective of the fact that there was no ceremony, they should be taken as married husband and wife. There have been judicial decisions to this effect. Mr. Deputy Speaker : Even for that there is a presumption under the Evidence Act. Sardar B. S. Man : No, Sir. I beg to differ from you. Sir, on that legal point. They will not recognise it, if such a marriage does not come either under the definition of sacramental marriage or any other rites and rituals. The emphasis there is upon customary rites. One must have certain rites. Mr. Deputy Speaker : How long should they live together? Sardar B. S. Man : There is a decided case. Again, Dr. Tek Chand says : “ Indeed, the Rivaj-e-ams of the districts and the records of the cases decided judicially are full of instances in which mere cohabitation as man and wife for a long period without any strict matrimonial ceremony, has been considered sufficient to validate the marriage.” That is the state of the law in the Punjab. As regards these marriages where the man and woman have lived together for a long time……. Mr. Deputy Speaker: What is the length of the time ? Sardar B. S. Man : In cases it was decided as seven years, in certain others as 20 and there are cases where it was decided as four or five years also. The validity of the marriage is judged by their dayto-day conduct in village community and not by certain ceremonies. But this form of marriage is not recognised by Dr. Ambedkar. He says “ I will not permit this sort of immorality ”. He calls it “ marriages

1099 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL made easy ”. It may be easy for me but I am not going to respect certain empty rituals. The sanctity of a marriage must be the attachment of the parties to it and their mutual conduct. It is immaterial whether certain rituals have been performed or not. Rev. D’Souza (Madras): On a point of information, may I know whether in those cases the conditions requisite to validate the marriage were there or whether the mere fact of cohabitation was recognised, even if there was a previous marriage of one of the parties ? Sardar B. S. Man : I shall come to that later. I am only talking about forms of marriage. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member has not appreciated the position. The point is when a marriage is presumed, there must be conditions regarding propinquity or that it does not contravene prohibited degrees or that the woman is not already a married woman. Is it an instance of a married woman living with another man who becomes her husband ? All the pre-requisities of marriage must be there : mere cohabitation is not enough. Sardar B. S. Man : Under the general law, if the other conditions are not there the courts will interfere. That is not within the scope of this Bill. Mr. Deputy Speaker : This refers to forms of marriage. Even the simple marriage where the bride and bridegroom sit together and a cloth is thrown over them is covered by this Bill and it is allowed. Even if that cloth is thrown away in the ceremony it is allowed. I do not know whether the hon. Member wants to press the proposition that a marriage should be valid whatever might be the degree of prohibition. Sardar B. S. Man : If a certain custom is barbaric or against public conscience or public morality, I will not for one moment accept that custom. You are giving two forms of marriage, dharmic and civil. I am giving you instances of other forms of marriage. You have been kind enough in your interpretation to say that Kareva marriages will be included. But undoubtedly certain rituals or rites are involved. I consulted others about marriages where there is no ceremony at all and where the man and woman merely live together long as husband and wife. The question was whether she was already a married woman and her husband was alive. Even if the husband was alive, the fact of seperation was there and if she was still the wife of another man, then it would be an offence punishable under the ordinary law. The

1100 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES question is about marriages which are presumed to be valid even when there are no ceremonies nor rituals but a prohibition is sought to be introduced in that regard here. In the Punjab people do marry cousins. Mr. Deputy Speaker: This does not abrogate the provisions of the Evidence Act and this is not inconsistent with that clause of the Act, namely that a man and woman living together was sufficient proof of marriage. Sardar B. S. Man : After the promulgation of this law, doubts will be expressed by the courts about the validity of such marriges and the only relief given is that the marriage shall be registered. If the Law Minister says that even such marriages, which were not performed strictly but by virtue of the parties living together for a long period and their mutual conduct, they will be considered as husband and wife and will not be forced to go to a registrar to register their marriage, then my apprehensions will be removed. Shri Tyagi: Both the parties must be willing. Sardar B. S. Man : Of course, you must have a willing wife and husband. (Interruption) My friend Prof. Yashwant Rai asks whether such cases are very common among the Jat sikhs. They are common among them along with the Scheduled Castes and specially his own particular caste in the Punjab. The idea of the present Bill is codification. Codification presupposes the existence of certain laws. If we are honest and want to proceed with the codification, the existing laws should be included there. But this codification under the present Bill is not only a codification of existing laws but so far as the Sikhs and the agriculturists of the Punjab are concerned it is an exclusion of their laws (An Hon. Member: Modification) or modification to such an extent that the original is completely lost that it is altogether alien and in many respects obnoxious to us and is thrust down our throats. Voltaire said : “ That the more vast a State is in size and composed of different peoples, the more difficult it becomes to unite all together by one and the same jurisprudence.” Only two days ago, the Prime Minister replying to a question why there was no national dress in India said that in a vast country which stretches from the borders of Central Asia to Kanya Kumari in the south, different people are used to different customs 11 A.M.