Vol. 14, Part II · pages 341–345

1121 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL after due publication and circulation, it has been considered in the Legislatures of those parts and the Legislatures have decided that it should apply to them. That will at least remove this glaring fault, the glaring omission which stares us in the face today. Shrimati Renuka Ray : And let us have the tyranny of the Brahamanical society for the next thousand years ! Pandit Malaviya : My esteemed sister says “Let us have the tyranny of the Brahmanical society for the next thousand years”. I can only wish and pray that not for a thousand years but for eternity, not only my good sister but the whole world might rise to the level and concept of the Brahmanic ideal—the ideal which has always stood for fairness and justice to all, which has stood for the performance of duties and actions due to others rather than insistence upon the rights and privileges of its own, which has enjoined not a life of aggrandizement, not a life of self-interest, not a life of low thinking and low living, but a life of noble and lofty idealism and practical selflessness where the Brahman more than anyone else in society but indeed not only the Brahman but every member of society abnegates himself, ignores himself, allows himself to suffer that others may grow, may prosper and may live. I know that the beauty and the sublimity of that concept is lost upon some of my hon. friends. ( Hear, hear ). I hope and pray that society and mankind will yet be able to rise morally, socially, ethically, spiritually and ideologically where the Brahmana will be the true Brahmana and all members of society will rise to the level of that age ! I am not ignoring the fact that the Brahmana has deteriorated as all others have...... Shrimati Durgabai: In preaching and practice, both. Shri R. K. Chaudhari : Why should the lady Member interrupt ? Pandit Malaviya : My sister there, except that we are born of different parents is like a real sister to me because we have both been born of the same institution. That sister of mine tells me that the Brahmana should rise high and lofty both in precept and practice. I wholeheartedly and with every fibre in me pray with her that it may be so, and indeed that it may be so with all others as well. Dr. Ambedkar: In the meantime, let us have the Hindu Code. Pandit Malaviya : If we can rise again to that pure and noble Brahmanic ideal, then the Hindu society will have no more of all its troubles and ills but will once again become the leader of mankind

1122 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES as it was at one time; not at the time when there was any injustice or tyranny by any section of society over any other but at a time when every member...... Shrimati Renuka Ray : Remember it. Pandit Malaviya : Of course I remember it, otherwise how should I say it. But it is Mrs. Renuka Ray who needs to know it and to remember it. Shrimati Renuka Ray : You are talking about the Hindu society during the days of its decadence. Please remember the Vedas and the Upanishadas. Mr. Chairman : May I request the hon. Member to proceed with his argument as he was proceeding before and not to answer these interruptions ? Otherwise the main thread of his theme will be lost. I would request hon. Members not to interrupt the speaker. Shrimati Durgabai: May I interrupt, Sir ? Is not this Bill intended to bring the example of Rama to all men ? Is not that a subject matter now ? Mr. Chairman: This is a very clear interrruption. Sardar B. S. Man : It is very dangerous nowadays to ignore interruptions from hon. lady Members. Shrimati Durgabai: In the matter of interruption, there is no distinction between lady Members and others. Pandit Malaviya: In the Brahman society the woman has been given the highest place. There is nothing higher than the mother. Dr. M. M. Das : One man marrying 250 wives : Is that the dignity conferred on a woman ? Mr. Chairman: Order, order. Let the hon. Member proceed. Pandit Maitra: Which man has married 250 wives ? Dr. M. M. Das : I am referring...... Mr. Chairman : Order, order. No mutual wrangling ; we must keep the decorum of the House. Pandit Malaviya: To go back to where I was, I was therefore submitting that if nothing else could be done, we might at least have this measure made applicable to the areas which were previously called the Indian States. Only after that process has been gone through viz., that it has been published and circularised there and the Legislatures concerned have decided that it should apply to them. There is yet another difficulty which I have. And that is, that when the Hindu Code was first framed, according to the Constitution which

1123 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL was in force in this country at that time, agricultural property was not a subject on which the Central legislature legislated. As a result, 90 per cent, or probably even more of the landed property in this country did not come under its jurisdiction. [mr. deputy S peaker in the Chair ] Now, agricultural property has also been put in the Concurrent List and this legislation, if passed, will apply to landed property also all over the country, The scope of this Bill, therefore, has been expanded almost 900 times over. As it stood before, it would have concerned only a very small fraction of the property in the nation. Mr. Deputy Speaker : That is no longer the subject matter of this Bill, unless the hon. Member thinks that as a consequence of the marriage, the children will be entitled to that also. Pandit Malaviya : I am at present talking of the application of the Bill and its import. I was pointing out...... Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member evidently was not here. We have said that this Bill is confined to marriage and Divorce. Property, inheritance, succession are not gone into now, unless indirectly the hon. Member says that the consequence of marriage will be some offspring and they may be entitled to some landed property. Pandit Malaviya : Sir, I have the same difficulty which I had once before. So many speakers are about that I could not hear you ! Mr. Deputy Speaker: The property chapter and other parts are now excluded from the scope of the Bill. We confine ourselves to marriage and divorce alone. Therefore, the hon. Member need not dilate upon that matter now. Pandit Malaviya: What I was submitting was not with regard to the nature of the provisions in respect of property. What I was submitting and another point which I had tried to make out before you came back was with regard to some of the vary objectionable features and circumstances relating to the situation in which this Bill, is now being put before this House. And I was, therefore, pointing out that a very grave and fundamental change in the circumstances has occurred, namely, that when the Bill was first framed. It did not have any applicability to 90 per cent, of the extent of this land. But it will now have, on account of the adoption in the Constitution of a Concurrent List on which agricultural lands and property have been placed......

1124 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mr. Deputy Speaker: The Bill is not pressed so far. It is now confined only to the part relating to marriage and divorce. There is enough time for hon. Members to consider when another Bill comes as to how it will affect agricultural land. Today we need not dilate upon that matter. Whatever might have been the change due to the agricultural lands being put in the Concurrent List, we are not concerned with that now. Pandit Malaviya : Sir, I will obey your ruling or decision. But I wish to submit for your consideration what I have to say and I will do as you will direct me. If at any time any Bill including the clauses relating to agricultural property comes up, then of course, it will be time for us to discuss the details of the clauses of that Bill and to express our opinions upon them. But at this stage, as you have stated, Sir, I am not trying to express any opinion whatever upon the question of the landed property in this country, or the methods of its disposition. I am not speaking on that subject. But what I wish to bring out is about the scope of the bill itself. Whatever may be its provisions, whether it is marriage, whether it is death, or whether it is anything else, it will somehow apply itself to all. I am trying to show with whom the provisions will come into compact. For instance, just before you returned to the Chair, I was arguing that the States in which the Bill had not been published should not be put under this Bill straightway, and there should at least be a provision that only after it has been published in the respective States should the respective legislatures be asked to decide upon it. Similarly, I beg to submit that what I was arguing was not the question of any landed property or any other property as such, but the nature of the applicability, the nature of the thing, what this Bill or any Bill of this nature, can now comprehend as against what it could comprehend before. Therefore, I shall confine myself to that aspect of the matter and not go into the question of property at all. Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member has taken two hours and we have some other work also to do. I thought the hon. Member was concluding and I was anxious to call upon the hon. Law Minister to speak. Now, may I know how long the hon. Member is likely to take ? I may adjourn the half-an-hour discussion to some other day, if the hon. Member is likely to finish soon. We have another fifteen minutes left now.

1125 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL Pandit Malaviya : Some of my hon. friends may laugh, Sir, but it is difficult for me to say how long I will take. I hope you will believe me,. Sir, that I have been trying not to dilate or to be expansive in my arguments. Some hon. friends have said that I was dilating. I can only say that if any one of them would do me the honour of meeting me outside the Chamber and letting me explain to him my view point about any one of the points which I am touching upon here, then he would know how much there is to be said on each one of these points, and how I am trying to confine myself only to the most essential things. Therefore...... Mr. Deputy Speaker: May I know whether it is possible for the hon. Member to finish in another fifteen minutes ? Pandit Malaviya : I do not think that will be possible. I may tell you, Sir, that I have got here a heap of notes and books which I have not yet even once touched. I am saying this in all sincerity and I am trying to confine myself to the most essential things. If I wanted to take up each one of the points in great detail, it would be different. I am trying to confine myself to the essentials. Yet I feel so deeply and so strongly on this matter and the subject is so important and vast that I am afraid it will not be possible for me to finish today. But I am in your hands, Sir. Mr. Deputy Speaker : How long does the hon. Member propose to take ? Dr. Ambedkar : Five days. Pandit Malaviya : The Law Minister says five days : I would not mind five days. Shri Sondhi (Punjab) : The challenge is accepted. Shrimati Durgabai: May I suggest to my brother Member that his thesis may be printed and circulated and taken as read ? Hon. Members : No. no. Pandit Malaviya : When my hon. sister makes the Constitution of this country and also the rules of Parliament, then probably we shall have that procedure. Sardar B. S. Man : That day is not far off. Pandit Malaviya : I would not unnecessarily take too much time but I would not be able to finish today. Mr. Deputy Speaker : Let me know how long he will take from now.