Vol. 14, Part II · pages 346–350

1126 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Dr. Ambedkar: If not five days five hours. Pandit Malaviya : I have lots to say, I shall be entirely guided by you. If you will permit me I will leave the matter open to you. I am prepared to come to you and show you my material and leave it to you as the custodian of the privileges of all Members of the House to tell me how much time I should take. Mr. Deputy Speaker : It is not my intention to curb or curtail the discussion on any point. Two hours have already been taken by the hon. Member and already we have discussed for six days. So far as the books and other references that the hon. Member has mentioned, they are for detailed consideration and he will not lose his opportunity. There are the other clauses on which he may bring to bear his knowledge of those tracts which he has. So far as the present occasion is concerned half an hour more should be sufficient to the hon. Member. Pandit Malaviya : I fear that may not suffice. If you will permit me I will put it in another way; I shall try to be as brief as possible. If you would rather that I cut short as much as possible I will devote myself to two points, namely marriage and divorce tomorrow and finish as quickly as I can. It may be that I will need. . . . Dr. Ambedkar : Five hours. Pandit Malaviya : He has come down to five hours from five days. Do you think, Sir, that is unreasonable? I shall try to make it as much less as possible. I am not saying this lightly. I will earnestly endeavour to make it as short as possible, perhaps two to two and a half hours. Shrimati Renuka Ray : I want to ask a question, Sir. This clause 2 deals with applicability. I want to ask you again whether we can bring up the whole subject of marriage and divorce when the consideration stage is over. Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member wants my ruling again and again. I wish only to say, is it necessary at the end of the discussion to give a ruling? Anyhow this much is clear. The hon. Member will try to conclude as early as possible tomorrow. So far as this matter is concerned and after he concludes I will immediately take up the half-hour discussion now and we shall go on till 1-30. I thought the hon. Member, Pandit Malaviya might conclude if we sat for another half an hour today, but there does not appear to be any chance of that. Therefore, if he will take some more time tomorrow, immediately after him I propose calling the Hon. Law Minister.

1127 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL Shri B. Das (Orissa): Sir, the reformists are keeping very quiet on the floor of this House. Two violent though very outstanding speeches have been made by my friends, Sardar Man and Pandit Malaviya. Therefore, you will permit us who are the majority in this House to have a say, apart from what Dr. Ambedkar will have to say in his final reply on behalf of Government. Hon. Members : Yes, Sir. Shri Syamnandan Sahaya : Yes, Sir, the father of the House should be given a chance. Shri Shiv Charan Lal (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, we have amendments on which we want to speak. Khwaja Inait Ullah (Bihar): Sir, so many amendments have been moved regarding this clause so as to bring within the scope all Indians, and so much has been said on that point. Therefore, I wish to throw some light on the Muslim point of view, as to whether they can accept it or not. So I must have some time. Shri R. K. Chaudhuri: May I respectfully point out that yesterday when I raised this question of opposition to an amendment, you were pleased to say that such opposition would be allowed. And I particularly laid stress on the amendment by which the Hon. Dr. Ambedkar wants to introduce “tribe”, which is a very important matter. I want to speak on that—I am not going to speak on other subjects. Mr. Deputy Speaker : Merely because an hon. Member tables an amendment he is not entitled to speak. I am allowing all elucidation on points to those who have tabled amendments, but when similar amendments have been tabled and one or two hon. Members have spoken, on account of the time which is already taken, if some hon. Members who have tabled amendments are not able to speak, I do not think I need wait so far as this matter is concerned. We are having a second reading on this clause 2. As regards the request of my hon. friend, Khwaja Inait Ullah, I am seriously considering whether that amendment which wants to apply this Bill to Muslims and Christians is not enlarging the scope of the Bill. I do not think any further discussion on this matter is necessary. Anyhow, I am going to call the hon. Minister immediately after Pandit Malaviya. Shri R. K. Chaudhuri: I wanted to oppose Dr. Ambedkar’s amendment relating to the introduction of the word “tribe”.

1128 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Shri J. R. Kapoor : With regard to what has fallen from you, Sir, about the admissibility of the amendment seeking to enlarge the applicability, may I submit that even at an earlier stage this point was taken up and then we were assured by the hon. Speaker that before any ruling was given on that point we would be given an opportunity to have our say on the matter. It might be the Chair’s first impression that it may not perhaps be within the scope, but you will please permit us to have a say to convince you how easily it comes within the scope. If that be your ruling I may submit many of the amendments of my hon. friend, Dr. Ambedkar would also have to be declared out of scope. Mr. Deputy Speaker : Dr. Ambedkar himself to be ruled out of this House? Shri J. R. Kapoor : Not he, some of his amendments; because they are very much on the same lines as this amendment. Mr. Deputy Speaker : One wrong amendment does not make another amendment good. If any of the hon. Law Minister’s amendments also enlarges the scope it is out of order—we will consider that matter. Pandit Malaviya : I have another amendment of which I have given notice—a short amendment which I shall move tomorrow at the end of my speech. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Provided, it is an absolutely formal amendment. Pandit Malaviya : I gave notice of it day before yesterday. Khwaja Inait Ullah: I will not take more than a few minutes. Mr. Deputy Speaker: No, Sir. Shri R. K. Chaudhuri: What about my point, Sir? Mr. Deputy Speaker : The hon. Member has got the ‘Ayes’ lobby and the ‘Noes’ lobby. He can vote against the clause if he likes. It is now too late for us to embark upon the half-an-hour discussion. It will be taken up on some other day. The House then adjourned till Half Past Eight of the Clock on Thursday, the 20th September, 1951.

1129 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL * HINDU CODE— contd. Shri Amolakh Chand (Uttar Pradesh): May I draw your attention Sir, before Pandit Malaviya resumes his speech, about a cartoon which appeared in today’s Indian News Chronicle, about which I have sent a note to you ? May I know whether that will be taken up just now or on some other date ? Hon. Members : What is the subject matter of the cartoon ? Shri Amolakh Chand : May I, with the permission of the Chair, just satisfy the curiosity of hon. Members about this cartoon ? Mr. Deputy Speaker: I have received this cartoon published in the Indian News Chronicle. I think it shows my likeness. It is a cartoon of a clock where both the hands are being held up by some of the hon. Members who have spoken against this Bill, but underneath the very pendulum is said to be held intact, not moving forward or backward, by a representation of myself. So long as the speaker is here that is another matter. But casting aspersions on the Chair is not only unjustified and undignified but here it is also opposed to the facts. I do not know if any hon. Member will ever raise any point that whatever might be my differences I have done anything unjust in this House. Hon. Members: No, no. Mr. Deputy Speaker: Therefore, I will look into this matter. It is a very serious matter—it does not matter whosoever may be in the Chair—to cast aspersions on the Chair. The moment the House feels that the person who occupies the Chair for the time being is not doing justice, it knows what to do, so far as that person is concerned. But it is not for outsiders to caricature, and it is an aspersion on the whole House. I shall look into this matter leisurely and then find out what action should be taken. However, I do not want this to interrupt the progress of this Bill. Shri T. N. Singh (Uttar Pradesh) : At the same time, whatever the action about that particular cartoon be, we do feel that the Press should not come out with anything which casts aspersions on the Chair of this august House, and it should be prevented. I feel that the matter, since it has been raised, is rather important and it should not be postponed in this fashion, I would urge that once the matter has been raised, we should certainly take it up right now and the House should express its disapproval. * P.D., Vol. XV, Part II, 20th September 1951, pp. 2901-19

1130 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mr. Deputy Speaker: I shall take time to consider it. *Pandit Malaviya (Uttar Pradesh) : When I left off yesterday, you were good enough to ask me how much more time I would need. I respectfully expressed my inability to indicate any exact amount of time and requested you to let me proceed on the basis that I should try to take as little time as may be possible. You were good enough to more or less indicate a limit, that I should not take more than about 21/2 hours more. Shri Sidhva (Madhya Pradesh): You said half an hour, Sir. Pandit Malaviya: I have since heard...... Mr. Deputy Speaker : I can only make one observation. The hon. Member yesterday was encouraged to ask for five days on the suggestion humorously made by the Hon. Law Minister. The Minister of Law (Dr. Ambedkar): He wanted five days— I suggested five hours. Mr. Deputy Speaker: When I was asking how long the hon. Member was likely to take, the Hon. Law Minister humorously said, five days. I was suggesting half an hour, the hon. Member was wanting more. Now what I propose doing is this...... Pandit Malaviya: May I say...... Mr. Deputy Speaker: I will do sufficient justice to the hon. Member. Now how long, may I know, is the Hon. Law Minister likely to take to reply ? Dr. Ambedkar : It is my intention to be brief, but I would like to cover some of the points raised, and I feel an hour or an hour and a quarter might be more than enough for me. Mr. Deputy Speaker: I propose calling the Hon. Law Minister as soon as the hon. Member who is on his legs finishes. Even if he takes 21/2 hours, there will be sufficient time if I call the Hon. Law Minister at 12 o’clock. Shrimati Durgabai (Madras): The hon. Member who is on his legs after having mentioned five hours or five minutes or whatever it may be, said that he would submit himself to the ruling of the Chair and you very kindly said that he should not require more than half an hour. After having once submitted to the ruling of the Chair, would the hon. Member be now permitted to retract ? *P.D., Vol. XV, Part II, 20th September 1951, pp. 2902-18.