Vol. 14, Part II · pages 351–355

1131 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL Mr. Deputy Speaker: I leave it to hon. Members themselves. Pandit Malaviya : I said about another matter yesterday that when my sister makes the rules, we will have to submit to many things from which fortunately we are free at the moment. Shrimati Durgabai: This is already in the rules. Pandit Malaviya: What I was intending to say was...... Mr. Deputy Speaker: Under the rules, so far as Finance Bills are concerned, I can set a limit. With respect to other Bills there is no provision for setting a time-limit on speeches. Shrimati Durgabai: My point is that once the Chair has given its ruling...... Mr. Deputy Speaker : Not ruling. Shrimati Durgabai: ......would the hon. Member be permitted to go against that ruling ? Mr. Deputy Speaker: It is not to be interpreted to be a ruling. It is only a suggestion. Incidentally, I forgot that I will have to put the amendments to the vote of the House. Therefore, if the hon. Member would restrict himself to two hours, thus making half an hour available for the Chair, I shall call upon the Hon. Law Minister at 11-30 so that we may finish this clause and all the amendments on it before we rise for the day. The hon. Member may take two hours. Pandit Malaviya : I am very grateful to you, Sir, for what you have said, but what I was going to say in the beginning was that whatever might have been the arrangement that we had more or less thought we had arrived at...... Mr. Deputy Speaker: He need not labour that point. Pandit Malaviya: ......since then some esteemed friends, for whose views and opinions most of us in this House have respect and regard, have taken the view that Members of the House should take as little time as possible. As I came into the House just now, it was conveyed to me that I should finish within a matter of minutes. I know that according to the rules one should have the time which he wishes to have and it is very good of you to say that you will stick to that. It is also true that I feel very earnestly that in a matter of such vital importance where things which have come down from millennia are going to be demolished, minutes and hours should not be counted and if somebody has something to say on this issue which

1132 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES is obviously not utter nonsense and irrelevance, then the question of time should not arise, whether he takes one day or two days or twenty days. But I respect the wishes of elders and of our leader and what I wished to say to you was that even though you have been good enough according to the rules to give me the longer opportunity. I shall try to leave out almost all that I had to say and shall try to confine myself to a few minutes only. I say this with a deep sense of pain and injustice to me and to this cause, but I am a man, as I said, who believes in the Hindu methods of tolerance and even if an unreasonable thing is thrust on me...... Mr. Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member will kindly resume his seat. I have been trying to avoid any impression being created that we are either hustling the Bill or unnecessarily dragging it on. I am bound to see to it that neither the one impression nor the other impression is created. We have spent sufficient time over this matter and just when we are concluding the debate and when, if a closure motion is moved. I am prepared to accept it because I am satisfied that there has been sufficient discussion on this matter and although individual Members might not have spoken, collectively all of them have spoken on all the points arising—just at this time, if the hon. Member feels aggrieved and then makes a point that for want of time and on account of some kind of limitation and pressure he is not putting forth all his points, he would not be doing justice to any of the persons here. I would like to avoid an impression being created that we are hustling this measure. It may be that there may not be sufficient support for the one or the other opinion. After all, we have to go by the rule of the majority in this House and it is open to all persons to express and press their point of view, but let it not be said that we are hustling the measure. The hon. Member has taken two hours. If he wants, he may have two more hours and if for any reason he is not prepared to proceed further, he need not make a point out of it, lest it should create an impression that we are hustling through this matter, though really we have been going on leisurely with it. Therefore, that kind of impression ought not to be created. It is open to him to speak or not to speak for various other reasons, which are extraneous. I am only concerned with the procedure in this House and the right impression both in this House and outside that we are not hustling such an important matter as this nor are we unnecessarily trying to stretch the discussion by any kind of filibustering. Therefore,

1133 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL in between these two impressions, I am trying to carry through this bill. The hon. Member need not refer to all those matters. It is his sweet will and pleasure to say what he wants to say or to refer to the further clauses or not to refer to any of them at all, or to make any comments for various reasons which he may consider fit and proper. Pandit Malaviya : I entirely agree with the remarks that have fallen from your lips and I was not making a complaint. I was only mentioning the fact that for reasons other than those that you have stated I shall not allow myself to take all the time that I need and that I should have liked to take. That is all that I wished to submit. Incidentally, it will also probably enable several other Members of this House, who, I saw yesterday, were very keen to have an opportunity to say something, to have an opportunity to do so. I am not saying this by way of any complaint, but I was submitting to you as a matter of fact that I have to leave out practically all that I wished to say and must now come straight to one or two points. I will leave the point I was making when we dispersed yesterday, regarding the scope of the Bill having been extended, so to say, overnight by the new Constitution having included agricultural lands in the Current List. I shall leave that also there. I will only touch in passing on another very important aspect, namely, that the bill which is before us now is so largely changed that it is almost unrecognisable compared to what it was when it was first introduced. There is a rule that Select Committees at the end of their reports should state that they have amended the Bill only in such measure, as they think, has not changed it materially and that the amended Bill does not need re-circulation or republication. That proves the principle that if a Bill is substantially changed in a Select Committee it should be republished and re-circulated. I submit that in matters of legislation we should observe the sanctity of the rules, because rules are framed in moments of calm and dispassionate consideration ; not vis-a-vis any particular item or any particular point of view, but with regard to the basic fundamental needs of ensuring that legislation is passed only with due care, thought and circumspection. Such rules, therefore, have very great value and it must be an ill day for the growth of healthy parliamentary traditions and institutions in any country if we begin to make light of them to suit the conveniences of our opinions on particular issues and particular

1134 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES occasions. I, therefore, feel, now that the Bill is so entirely changed to as it is, that constitutionally there can be no justification at all for proceeding with it, or any part of it now as it stands without that procedure being brought into force. I will leave that point also there. I will touch only upon one or two things more and will resume my seat. Several friends who are supporters of this Bill said that this Bill has been drawn up in accordance with the tenets of the Smritis and Dharma Shastras. If I had the time I would have quoted extracts from the various Smritis and Dharma Shastras to prove the hollowness of that claim. I cannot do that now. I will, therefore, come straight to the two vital principles which are involved in the measure that is to be taken up—one the question of the degree of sapinda prohibition and second the question as to whether among the Hindus a remarriage of and married woman can take place. Texts have been quoted form some of the Smritis on both these points. With regard to the sapinda question it has been argued that the Smritis have from time to time laid down different principles, that while one Smriti has said one thing another Smriti has said another thing and an attempt has been made to draw the inference therefrom that it was a matter not of such vital importance that it could not change, but that from time to time, reflecting the opinion and the practice of the age, the different Smritis have laid down different texts. 1 was mentioning yesterday that in the matter of these Dharma Shastras there are rules of interpretation which have laid down cut and clear principles and methods of approach. It is laid down that the Dharma Shastra can be interpreted only by the utilisation of the rules of Mimamsa. Fourteen sources for determining them have to be utilized. They are all mentioned and therefore if anybody wants honestly to understand these things he must go into the depth of that matter. Almost every one of the Smritis and the Dharma Shastras have laid down that in the sapinda degree of prohibition we should have seven degrees on the paternal side and five degrees on the maternal side or more. Nobody has disputed that. It has been said that it is stated only in some of the Smritis as five and three instead of seven and five. I believe the Paithinasi Smriti text is relied upon for this purpose. In the belief that Members of this House wish seriously to take the matter into consideration as to whether it is laid down in the Smriti that it should be five and three, I shall try to clear up that point. The Paithinasi Smriti......

1135 DR. AMBEDKAR AND THE HINDU CODE BILL Mr. Deputy Speaker: I do not think the Hon. Law Minister is dogmatic about this matter. Dr. Ambedkar: When the time comes we shall consider it. ... Pandit Malaviya : I am taking this only as an instance to show how the entire provisions of the Bill are based upon a complete misconception. The text in the Paithinasi Smriti is : iapeha ekr`r% ifjgjsr~ lIreha fir`r% So far it is clear—five degrees from the mother and seven degrees from the father. So, the Paithinasi Smriti also says the same so far. Then, it goes on to say: =khu~ ekr`r% iapfir`rks ok A It gives another view and says three from the mother’s side and five from the father’s side. If I had the time I would have gone into all the other Smritis to disprove the statement of some friends that the Smritis lay down different rules—in one case seven and five and in another case five and three and it is for us to select. The Mimamsa lays down the method of interpretation of these texts. The whole basis of Hindu law rests upon the fact that the law comes for the Shruti. Shrutis are Swatah Pramana (Lor% izek.k% ). Whatever is in the Shruti stands proved by itself and does not need any further argument. The Smritis are Partah Parmana ijr% izek.k% They do not by themselves carry that authority because they are Shrutimula. Jqfr ewy . They belong to the class where authority is derived from Shrutis. Now, it is obvious then that if the same source is to be drawn upon by all the Smritis the obvious objection would be—and I suppose it would be a natural objection also— that if you claim that they all emanate from one and the same source, then how can there be conflicting versions in them. We can anticipate that objection. Mimamsa goes on to say that there may be cases where in the Shruti itself there is auvikalp, that is, where the Shruti itself lays down two alternatives that a thing may be of one or another. There are instances of that nature in the Shrutis themselves ! [10 a.m.] mfnrs tqgksfrA vuqfnrs tqgksfrA That is from the Smritis. It says a certain Yajnya may be performed before sunrise, and it also says it may be performed after sunrise. But there is no conflict, because both are mentioned in the Shruti. And then according to the tenets of the Mimamsa Shastra other