Vol. 15 · pages 461–465

444 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Shri Sonavane: I rise to support this Bill and to congratulate the Government on bringing this measure before this August House. I was, therefore, surprised to see why the mind of Mr. Kapoor was so confused today. As is usual with Mr. Kapoor to speak on every Bill, he did today without any justification. A cursory reading of article 332(1) and article 341(2) would have made it clear to Mr. Kapoor that this measure was necessary. My hon. friend simply relied too much on article 330 (2), caught hold of words “in the State” and went on arguing with that, oblivious of the fact that there are other articles. I would draw his attention to article 332(1) which conditions and qualifies article 330(2). Article 332(1) reads thus: “Seats shall be reserved for the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, except the Scheduled Tribes in the tribal areas of Assam in the Legislative Assembly of every State specified in Part A or Part B of the First Schedule.” Shri J. R. Kapoor: We are not dealing with the State Assemblies; we are dealing with the House of the People. Shri Sonavane: I would also draw the attention of the hon. Member to Article 341 (2) which reads : “Parliament may, by law include in, or exclude from the list of Scheduled Castes specified in a notification issued under clause (1) any caste, face or tribe or part of or group within any caste, race or tribe, but save as aforesaid a notification issued under the said clause shall not be varied by any subsequent notification.” In view of these provisions in Part XVI I think the measure that has been brought forward is absolutely essential and Mr. Kapoor should not have raised his voice against it. I would now come to another aspect of this question to which the Hon. and learned Law Minister should pay attention. The measure specifies certain castes in the Sixth Schedule. But there are other Scheduled Castes in other States. These Scheduled Castes when they go over to other States, are not recognised as such and would not enjoy the rights given to

445PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES them by the Constitution and so would not get reservations. He would remain an untouchable, suffering all the disabilities and disadvantages, with none of the rights and other benefits that would have accrued to him if he had remained in his original State. Therefore my point is this. A Scheduled Caste man in one State even if he migrates to another State should be equally entitled to all the benefits under the Constitution. I would request the Hon. the Law Minister to embody a provision to this effect. By excluding the Scheduled Castes from the enjoyment of such privileges, when they move from one State to another there has been a restriction on their movement from one State to another. Therefore, I would earnestly request the Hon. Minister to consider the insertion of a proviso to section 3A by which all persons who are Scheduled Castes in their States should get automatically all the rights and benefits if they migrate to States other than their own. The third point that I would like to bring to the notice of the Hon. Minister is that the Scheduled Caste lists are defective and many castes which are untouchables in the different States are omitted and no efforts are being made to see that these castes are included in the Union List as also in the list of those States. The Hon. Minister said that this list is exhaustive and no caste has been omitted. But I think he has failed in his duty to see that all the Scheduled Castes were brought on the Provincial Scheduled Caste List as also on the Union Caste List. Many representations have been sent to the Home Minister and to the Law Minister about those untouchable castes. Mr. Chairman : Is the hon. Member likely to take a long time? Shri Sonavane : Yes, Madam. Mr. Chairman: Then he may continue his speech tomorrow. The House then adjourned till a Quarter to Eleven of the Clock on Thursday, the 19th April, 1951.

446 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES *REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE (AMENDMENT) BILL—contd. Mr. Speaker: The House will now proceed with the further consideration of the following motion moved by the Hon. Dr. Ambedkar on the 18th instant: “That the Bill further to amend the Representation of the People Act, 1950, be taken into consideration.” Shri Sonavane (Bombay): When the House adjourned yesterday I was speaking on how the movement of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes from one State to another would be restricted by the failure of the Ministry of Law to safeguard the interests of these people by seeing that they are not omitted from the lists of the States and the Union. I would like to illustrate my point by giving a concrete instance. In Bombay, there is a caste known as Mahar. Persons belonging to this caste come over to Delhi, but this caste is not included in the Delhi Scheduled Castes list. Thus, these people would not get any of the benefits under the Constitution only because of the fact that their caste has not been included in the Scheduled Castes list of the Delhi State. In other words, had they remained in Bombay, they would have enjoyed all the privileges and benefits. Therefore, my point is that even if the Scheduled Castes migrate from one State to another, they should get the privileges and benefits under the Constitution. That is not the case today. This omission of the recognition of all Scheduled Castes in the different States has had a restrictive effect on their movement. Therefore, I would urge the Hon. the Law Minister to see to this and make an all-embracing list so that the restriction on their movement would be removed. Another instance of this omission is that certain castes from Bombay State have gone over to Madhya Bharat and they have not been included in the list there. There are three or four castes of that type. Though they are untouchables, the benefits under the Constitution are denied to them. While replying to a supplementary question of mine, the Hon. the * P. D., Vol. 10, Part II, 19th April 1951, pp. 7042-7125.

447PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES Law Minister had said that the criterion of the Scheduled Caste list was untouchability. Therefore, I would like to ask him what he has done to see that all the untouchables are brought on the State as well as the Union lists. He has failed to do his duty towards the untouchables being in authority here, and I would suggest that an earnest effort should be made by him to rectify the mistake before the coming elections. Now, I would go to another point. The Scheduled Castes in certain States like Ajmer, Bhopal, Cutch and Tripura, who get not more than one seat, would not get any representation at all. I think it would have been wise and advisable for the Law Ministry to have evolved a formula by which the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes could have been given joint representation, going in rotation. As it is, these people, the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes would have no representation at all even though they are in substantial number in those States. I would, therefore, request the Hon. Law Minister to evolve a system of joint representation for these people by rotation. The last point I want to make is that under the Constitution only such of the untouchables or Scheduled Tribes who are listed as such are recognised by the States and the Union and would get the benefits under the Constitution. Such lists have not been prepared by the States of Bilaspur, Coorg and the Andaman and Nicobar. In the absence of such lists of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, those people residing in those States would not get the benefits for their education and upliftment in the services. Therefore, I would request that such a list may be prepared so that these persons may get all the benefits under the Constitution. Once more I would thank the Government for bringing forward this measure and request the Hon. the Law Minister that the suggestions which I have made are embodied in the Bill. Pandit Munishwar Datt Upadhyay (Uttar Pradesh): It is needless to emphasise the fact that this House is very keen to safeguard the interests of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, because our Congress Government, and the

448 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES members of this House who are mostly Congressmen working under the guidance of Mahatma Gandhi, have all along been taking keen interest in the cause that was so dear to Gandhiji. I do not think that on that point it is at all necessary that an assurance need be given to this House or to the people outside that we are very praticular of safeguarding the interests of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, in so far as the question of representation of these castes is concerned in the House of the People as also in State Legislatures. But it appears that there have been certain facts in the knowledge of hon. Members on account of which they had to make certain remarks yesterday. So far as the spirit of this Bill goes, it is a laudable and welcome measure, providing for the representation of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in the House of the People as well as State Legislatures. But this provision need have been made only if there is no provision for it in the law as it exists at present. Reading the Constitution, I find that there is already a provision for the representation of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in this House and also in other Legislatures. Article 330 is very clear on this point. Clause (2) of article 330 says : “The number of seats reserved in any State for the Scheduled Castes or the Scheduled Tribes under clause (1) shall bear, as nearly as may be, the same proportion to the total number of seats allotted to that State in the House of the People as the population of the Scheduled Castes in the State, or of the Scheduled Tribes in the State or part of the State, as the case may be in respect of which seats are so reserved, bears to the total population of the State.” So, my submission is that this provision applies to all the States. It does not apply only to Part a States, or Part B States, or any particular state. Probably the confusion arises on account of reference to article 332, where provision is made for representation in the State Assemblies. I think this Bill is only a repetition of the provision in the Constitution. If it is argued that there is no provision in article 330 of the Constitution for the representation of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes in the House of the People, I do not think 12-00 NOON