Vol. 17, Part I · pages 136–140

111ROLE OF ......................... INDIAN DEMOCRACY The next day Gandhi expressed his views that the Round Table Conference delegates were not the chosen ones of the nation, but chosen ones of the British Government. Not that Gandhi was not aware of this before his departure to London. But he now began to twit the delegates. Regarding Dr. Ambedkar’s views on States’ representation on the Federal Legislatures, Gandhi said that while his sympathies were, broadly speaking, with Dr. Ambedkar, his reason was wholly with Gavin Jones and Sir Sultan Ahmed, who echoed the views of the Princely Order. Gandhi favoured the proposal for Federation, but supported the standpoint of the Princes as against the States’ people, saying : “Here we have no right, in my humble way, to say to the States what they should do and what they shall not do !” Gandhi then turned to the pivotal problem that was haunting the delegates. He referred to the problem of special representation claimed by the different communities, and said : “The Congress has reconciled itself to special treatment of the Hindu-Muslim-Sikh tangle. There are sound historical reasons for it, but the Congress will not extend that doctrine in any shape or form. I listened to the list of special interests. So far as the Untouchables are concerned, I have not yet quite grasped what Dr. Ambedkar has to say, but of course, the Congress will share the onus with Dr. Ambedkar of representing the interests of the Untouchables. The interests of the Untouchables are as dear to the Congress as the interests of any other body or of any other individual throughout the length and breadth of India. Therefore, I would most strongly resist any further special representation.” This was nothing but a declaration of war, Ambedkar observed, by Gandhi and by the Congress against the Untouchables. “With this declaration by Mr. Gandhi,” he added, “I knew what Mr. Gandhi would do in the Minorities Committee which was the main forum for the discussion of this question.” On September 18 Ambedkar rose and asked Gandhi in the Federal Structure Committee whether the views placed by Gandhi regarding the Federal Legislature and the formation of the Federal Executive were his own or those of the Congress. When Diwan Bahadur, Ramaswami Mudaliar stated that the public servants,

112 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES who constituted the Political Department, were as conscientious and fair as any other body of public servants anywhere in India or outside. Dr. Ambedkar at once asked him why then he wanted responsible Government at all if that was so. In his speech Pandit Malaviya pleaded for patience and courtesy to be shown to the Princes and observed that had Government utilized all resources and spent sufficient money on promoting primary education among the people, he was sure the words Depressed Classes would have been a matter of history by that time. Dr. Ambedkar at once pointed out his own case and said that in spite of his education he was still an Untouchable. In the course of his speech Sir Akbar Hydari, while replying to Dr. Ambedkar, said : “Speeches like those of Dr. Ambedkar, if I may say so, do not sufficiently appreciate the realities of the situation.” Upon this Dr. Ambedkar answered back : “I have never been guilty of not appreciating realities.” While discussing the formation of the Federal Constitution, nobody referred to the time-limit for initiation of Federation. It was Dr. Ambedkar who lifted the veil by saying : “I do not know that there would be any British Indian who would like to put the establishment of responsible Government in cold storage untill the Princes make up their minds to enter into the Federal Government of India.” During these discussions in the Federal Structure Committee there were flashes, exchanges of views, reviews of the constitutional history of the world and ideas about Free India. Dr. Ambedkar’s speeches on those topics were full of information, interest and valuable suggestions. The politician, the barrister, the constitutionalist, the professor, the defender of the downtrodden millions and the friend of the States people profoundly inpressed the Conference with different facets of his erudition. By now the third week of September 1931 was over. The Minorities Committee was to commence its work on September 28. On the eve of this session, Gandhi’s son, Devdas Gandhi, saw Dr. Ambedkar at his residence, and an interview was fixed between Gandhi and Dr. Ambedkar at the residence of Sarojini Naidu between 9 and 12 p.m. Accordingly, Dr. Ambedkar saw

113ROLE OF ......................... INDIAN DEMOCRACY Gandhi and placed his cards on the table. But Gandhi did not open his mind and said that he would consent to Dr. Ambedkar’s demands if others agreed. The Minorities Committee met for the first time on September 28, 1931. The Premier admitted that the problem of minorites in India had baffled them all. He observed that some of the delegates had suggested that Government should arbitrate as the delegates themselves had failed to agree, but he opined that the arbitration would probably be unacceptable to some of them. Upon this the Aga Khan said that Mahatma Gandhi was going to see the Muslim delegates that night and so he asked for an adjournment. Seconding the Aga Khan, Malaviya wished that the general discussion might stand over. Dr. Ambedkar was in the know of the secret talks that were going on between the Muslim leaders and Gandhi regarding the Hindu-Muslim agreement. So referring to the motion for adjournment, he said : “As far as the Depressed Classes are concerned, we have already presented our case to the Minorities Sub-Committee last time. The only thing which remains for me to do is to put before this Committee a short statement suggesting the quantum of representation which we want in different Legislatures.” He himself had heard with great pleasure, Dr. Ambedkar continued, that further negotiations were going to take place for the settlement of the communal issue. He further obvserved:” But I would like to make this matter absolutely plain at the start. Those who are negotiating ought to understand that they are not plenipotentiaries at all; that whatever may be the representative character of Mr. Gandhi or the Congress people, they certainly are not in a position to bind us— certainly not. I say that most emphatically in this meeting.” And concluding his speech with a warning, he said : “I want to say most emphatically that whoever claims weigthtage and whoever is willing to give that weithtage he must not give it—he cannot give it—out of my share.” Upon this the Chairman, MacDonald said : “Dr. Ambedkar’s position has been made absolutely clear, in his usual splendid way. He has left no doubt at all about it.”* * Proceedings of Federal Structure Committee & Minorities Committee, p. 527.

114 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES On October 1 Mahatma Gandhi again asked for a week’s adjournment. He told the Committee that he was being closeted with Muslim leaders of various groups. At this Dr. Ambedkar got up and said that he did not wish to create any difficulty in arriving at such a settlement, but wanted to know whether or not the Depressed Classes would be represented on that formal Committee. Gandhi replied in the affirmative. Dr. Ambedkar thanked Gandhi for this, and turning to the delegates, explained : “Mahatma Gandhi told us on the first day that he spoke in the Federal Structure Committee that as a representative of the Indian National Congress he was not prepared to give political recongnition to any community other than the Muslims and the Sikhs. He was not prepared to recognize the Anglo-Indians, the Depressed Classes and the Indian Christians. I do not think that I am doing any violence to etiquette by stating in this Committee that when I had the pleasure of meeting Mahatma Gandhi a week ago and of discussing the question of the Depressed Classes with him and when we, as Members of the other minorities, had the chance of talking with him yesterday in his office, he told us in quite plain terms that the attitude that he had taken in the Federal Structure Committee was his full and well-considered attitude.” Dr. Ambedkar, then thundered that if the Depressed Classes were not going to be recognized in the future constitution of India, as was done by the Minorities Sub-Committee during the first session of the Round Table Conference, he would neither join that particular Committee nor whole-heartedly support the proposition for adjournment. Sir Herbert Carr, Dr. Dutt and others welcomed the adjournment. The discussions between Gandhi and the Muslim leaders went on for a week. The newspapers declared that the discussions had reached an encouraging stage. It was reported that Gandhi had conceded to the Muslims their fourteen points, accepted that the residuary powers be vested in federating provinces, allowed the Muslims majority in the Punjab and in Bengal, and had offered the Muslims a blank cheque. The talks, however, failed on the Sikh-Muslim question.

115ROLE OF ......................... INDIAN DEMOCRACY On October 8 Gandhi announced, with deep sorrow to the Minorities Committee, his utter failure in securing an agreed solution of the communal question through informal conversations amongst and with the representatives of different groups. He said that the causes of failure were inherent in the composition of the Indian Delegation, and that they were almost all not elected representatives of the parties or groups whom they were presumed to represent nor were those whose presence was absolutely necessary for an agreed solution. He, therefore, moved for an adjournment of the meeting sine die. Dr. Ambedkar took up the challenge and stood to reply to Gandhi. He said that Gandhi was guilty of a breach of understanding according to which it was agreed the previous night that none of the delegates was to make any speech or any comment that would cause exasperation. Dr. Ambedkar’s vitriolic tone began to rise. He thundered: “What distaurbs me, after hearing Mr. Gandhi, is that instead of confining himself to his proposition, namely, that the Minorities Committee should be adjourned sine die, he started casting reflections upon the representatives of the different communities who are sitting round this Table. He said that the delegates were the nominees of Government, and that they did not represent the views of their respective communities for whom they stood, we cannot deny the allegation that we are nominees of the Government, but speaking for myself, I have not the slightest doubt that even if the Depressed Classes of India were given the chance of electing their representatives to this Conference, I would all the same, find a place here. I say therefore, that whether I am a nominee or not, I fully represent the claims of my community. Let no man be under any mistaken impression as regards that.” The Mahatma has been claiming, “Dr. Ambedkar proceeded” that the Congress stands for the Depressed Classes, and that the Congress represents the Depressed Classes more than I or my colleagues can do. To that claim I can only say that it is one of the many false claims which irresponsible people keep on making although the persons concerned with regard to those claims have been invariably denying them.’* Dr. Ambedkar thereupon showed how he had * Proceedings of Federal Structure Committee & Minorities Committee, p. 534.