Vol. 15 · pages 921–925

902 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Dr. K. N. Katju : They are benefited by it. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : I cannot hear. Dr. K. N. Katju: May I just say a few words? I heard him complain just now that the system of awarding foreign scholarships to the members of the scheduled castes has been given up and was being given up in 1946 by Rajaji. I was only just saying that foreign scholarships are being given today and that scheme was tried last year for one year and that scheme has now been made permanent for five years. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : You are reviving it because you have seen the folly of it. Dr. K. N. Katju : It has been renewed. The scholarships are now being given. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : After an abeyance of several years. Dr. K. N. Katju : I am not concerned with that point. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : You should look into the history of your department. You cannot simply say, ‘I don’t know’ What I was saying was this. Notwithstanding what my hon. friend said, I think the criticism that I am making is very valid and very fundamental. Here in this country you find really two nations—a ruling nation and a nation which is a subject nation. An Hon. Member : Question. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : The backward classes are all subject peoples. They have no authority in any place. None whatever. They have no place in Administration—they have no place in the Executive and the Executive and the Administration is entirely monopolised by the higher classes. They are monopolising it by reason of the fact that they have been able to get the highest education. Why not examine all the Secretaries of your Departments in the Government of India ? The son and daughter of every Secretary in the Government is to be found in Cambridge or Oxford. Twice and thrice they have made journeys in order to lodge their children there because they have the amplest means. The backward class man’s son cannot get even primary education. This sort of

903PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES revolution in the two different classes is going on for centuries— it is an intolerable business because we cannot allow one class to rule for ever. For some time they may but they must see that the other classes also become educationally qualified in order that they too may hold the reins of government. We are not going to be subject people all the time. Shri H. P. Saksena (Uttar Pradesh) : There are no classes in India. This is a classless country. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : Therefore what I am saying is this, that if you really want to unify the people, to bring all the people on level, then it is not enough that you should get the highest education and others should get the lowest and not even the lowest. It is from that point of view that you must introduce the system of foreign education. It was with that aim that I struggled to get some quota from the Government of India and asked them to put the responsibility for university education upon the provinces. The States have been jolly glad to throw the responsibility upon you. What do they do ? They are having prohibition, making people sober. Personally for myself I think a sober man who is an ignoramus is not to be perferred to a man who is educated and who drink a bit. I prefer the latter. I am glad to hear that my hon. Friend is now reviving the system of sending scheduled caste boys to foreign countries. I congratulate him. Now, Sir, the other thing which has recently come to my notice is this, that the Education Department has issued a circular—I think a month or two ago—to the effect that those scheduled caste boys only who have secured 50 per cent. marks in the examination shall get scholarships. Others will not get. I am wondering whether a generous Government with a sympathetic heart desiring to elevate the scheduled castes would ever think of prescribing so hard a test as securing 50 per cent. You must consider the condition in which the scheduled caste boy lives. Probably his father or mother has not got even a room set apart for his study. He probably has not got a lamp to sit by at night and study. He is living in the midst of a crowd. How do you expect him to secure 50 per cent. marks in the examination ? It is an absurdity— utter absurdity. You must, for some time allow the ordinary

904 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES standard viz., of 33 per cent. which has been recognized by all the universities and which is being recognised by you also for the purposes of employment in the Government of India. If a boy who merely passes is fit to be employed by the Government of India, why is he not fit for the grant of scholarship for further education unless you want deliberely to put some kind of an impediment in the growth of their education ? The difficulty is this. The admissions take place some time in the last week of June. Various colleges admitted scheduled caste students without asking for fees because they knew that the Government of India would give them the scholarship. After three months of the joining of the College, the Ministry comes out with a circular saying that only those who have secured 50 per cent. will get scholarships. What are the colleges to do with the boys whom they have admitted on the assurance that the previous system will continue in operation ? What are the boys going to do who have got themselves admitted into the college ? I hope my hon. friend the Home Minister will look into this matter and take it up with the Education Minister and ask them to square up this difficulty, at any rate so far as this year is concerned. You may do what you like next year provided you give enough notice both to the students and to the colleges as to what you propose to do. Then I come to the question of services. The Commissioner has divided his figures with regard to the services under three groups—the Army, the All india services and the Central Services of the Government of India. With regard to Army, I find that in certain categories the position has deteriorated. In 1952 there were two Second Lieutenants belonging to the scheduled castes. In 1953, the position is “nil”. Of Junior Commissioned Officers, in 1952 there were 601. In 1953 the number is 435. Non-Commissioned Officers, in 1952 there were 3,273. In 1953, the figure has gone down to 2,533. Other ranks, in 1952, the number was 22,288. In 1953 it has gone down to 18,666. I am quite unable to understand this deterioration in the position of the scheduled castes in the Army. The Army, I thought, is the one place where not much intellectual calibre is necessary, I mean in the other ranks.

905PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES may be that in the higher staff it is required—much intellectual eminence. But we are not talking about them. But taking the other ranks, we find that the figure has gone down from 22,000 to some 18,000. Why? The Army, I understand, has been expanding, and with the expansion of the Army one would naturally expect an increase in the number of scheduled caste men in the Army. In all other places, you say they are unsuitable. And that is a very ambiguous phrase. All public service commissions and appointing authorities have learnt that phrase by heart. You simply say the man is unsuitable, and there is an end of the matter. But in the Army what is there to be unsuitable? What is the unsuitability about? There you have certain measurement of the chest. There are very few people among the scheduled caste’s who would not fulfil that test. Then you have certain tests of height—some 5 ft. 4 inches or so. Well, I think all scheduled caste candidates would fill up that height (Interruption). Very few, there may be, I admit, who may fail. But given these physical standards of health, chest measurements and height, I should have thought that almost every scheduled caste man was fit to be in the military service. And when you are denying them service in other departments of the Government of India, surely you ought to make some concession to them in departments like the Army and the Police where education is not a matter of any considerable moment- But there again you have been behaving in a stepmotherly fashion. I do not know whether the Home Department evertakes interest in these figures, or knows them and pursues the matter. Surely, the Commanderin-Chief ought to be asked by them as to why this deterioration has taken place. Then, Sir I come to the All-India Serviced There are what they call the Administrative Service and the Indian Police Service. Recruitment to these, I think, started through the Public Services Commission, in the year 1952. My hon. friend Shri Datar will correct me, if I am wrong. But I think that is the year. The Deputy Minister For Home Affairs (Shri B. N. Datar) : About 1946.

906 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Dr. B. R. Ambedkar : No, I am not counting those whom they recruited from the Provinces. No scheduled caste man was recruited except one or two; the rest they found to be utterly unfit, although the Provincial Governments thought them quite fit. The Central Public Service Commission found them utterly unfit. That is all past history and I am dealing with the present. Has there been any recruitment to the Indian Administrative Service since 1952—when the new Constitution came into force ? I have not seen single scheduled caste candidate being chosen by the Public Service Commission for the Indian Administrative Service—not one. I have not seen a single candidate being chosen by the Public Service Commission for the Indian Police Service either. It is only last year that I struggled with the Public Service Commission and induced them to accept one for the Indian Police Service. I wonder whether the Home Department which is in charge of services look upon this matter as of no moment or looks upon this matter as a matter of high moment. These are executive services. My hon. friend knows very well the difference between an executive service and an administrative service. An administrative service is more or less a clerical thing. The executive service possesses the power of direction. It has directive authority. Now, I want to say and I want to say it quite fearlessly that 2,000 clerks are of no value as compared to one officer holding an executive post. In Hindi we call it “Maarneki Jagah”. What are these poor clerks ? You will see in fortresses—but you have none in U.P.—in my part of the country the place is full of Maratha fortresses. Shri B. N. Datar : “Maar Quilla” We call it. Dr. B. R. Ambedkar: vkneh ogk¡ cSBdj iQk;j dj ldrk gS nq'eu dks] Now, these executive posts are posts from where direction can be given. The clerks need all kinds of protection. Any officer may spoil their character-roll by writing a bad remark or saying that the man is no good. The only way he can be protected is by having somebody in the executive service who might look into this matter and see no injustice is being done. Similarly with regard to the policy laid down by the Government. Whether that policy will fructify and yield