Vol. 8 · pages 111–115

86 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES (b) If the reply to part (a) be in the negative, can a statement of Government’s policy in this regard be made giving reasons why it has not been considered proper to take such action ? (c) Is His Excellency the Commander-in-Chief prepared to take up this matter with His Majesty’s Government ? (d) Are Government aware that in the University Corps and in the Bombay Scout Movement, and in the Police Forces of the country, there is no separation by caste or creed ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : (a) No. (b) Government regard it as a fundamental principle of organization that Military Sub-Units, such as companies and squadrons, must be homogeneous. (c) No, for the reason just mentioned. (d) Yes. Mr. S. Satyamurti : May I know the meaning which Government attach to the word “homogeneous” ? Does it mean from the same province or the same community ? Mr. C.M.G. Ogilvie : It means that they must belong to the same class of persons. Mr. S. Satyamurti : May I ask for some elucidation of this point ? Do they make distinction between one class and another ? Mr. C.M.G. Ogilvie : Certainly. Mr. S. Satyamurti : On what basis ? Is it religious class or racial class or provincial class ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : Neither. It is largely racial class. Mr. S. Satyamurti : Which races are preferred and which are not preferred ? Mr. C.M.G. Ogilvie : I refer the Honourable Member to the Army List. Recruitment to the Indian Army.* *Legislative Assembly Debates, 1938, Vol. VI, page 2754.

87 PAKISTAN : WEAKENING OF THE DEFENCES Q. 1162 : Mr. Brojendra Narayan Chaudhary : Will the Defence Secretary please state :— (a) Whether the attention of Government has been drawn to the address of the Punjab’s Premier, the Hon’ble Sir Sikander Hyat Khan to his brother soldiers, in these words : “No patriotic Punjabi would wish to impair Punjab’s position of supremacy in the Army,” as reported by the Associated Press of India in the Hindustan Times of the 5th September 1938; and (b) Whether it is the policy of Government to maintain the supremacy of Punjabis in the army by continuing to recruit the major portion from the Punjab; or to attempt recruitment of the Army from all the provinces without racial or provincial considerations ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : (a) Yes. (b) I refer the Honourable Member to replies I gave to the supplementary questions arising from starred question No. 1060 asked by Mr. Amarendra Nath Chattopadhyaya on 15th September 1938. Mr. S. Satyamurti: With reference to the answer to part (a) of the question, my Honourable friend referred to previous answers. As far as I remember, they were not given after this statement was brought before this House. May I know if the Government of India have examined this statement of the Punjab Premier, “No patriotic Punjabi would wish to impair Punjab’s position of supremacy in the Army” ? May I know whether Government have considered the dangerous implications of this statement and will they take steps to prevent a responsible Minister going about and claiming provincial or communal supremacy in the Indian Army, which ought to remain Indian first and Indian last ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie: I can only answer in exactly the same words as I answered to a precisely similar question of the Hon’ble Member on the 15th September last. The policy of Government with regard to the recruitment has been repeatedly stated and is perfectly clear.

88 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mr. S. Satyamurti: That policy is to get the best material and I am specifically asking my Honourable friend—I hope he realises the implications of that statement of the Punjab Premier. I want to know whether the Government have examined the dangerous implications of any provincial Premier claiming provincial supremacy in the Indian Army and whether they propose to take any steps to correct this dangerous misapprehension ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : Government consider that there are no dangerous implications whatever but rather the reverse. Mr. Satyamurti: Do Government accept the supremacy of any province or any community as desirable consideration, even if it is a fact, to be uttered by responsible public men and do not the Government consider that this will give rise to communal and provincial quarrels and jealousies inside the, army and possibly a military dictatorship in this country ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : Government consider that none of these forebodings have any justification at all. Mr. M. S. Aney: Do the Government subscribe to the policy implied in the statement of Sir Sikander Hyat Khan ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : Government’s policy has been repeatedly stated and made clear. Mr. M. S. Aney: Is it the policy that the Punjab should have its supremacy in the Army ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : The policy is that the best material should be recruited for the Army. Mr. M.S. Aney: I again repeat the question. Is it the policy of Government that Punjab should have supremacy in the Army ? Mr. C.M.G. Ogilvie : I have repeatedly answered that question. The policy is that the Army should get the best material from all provinces and Government are quite satisfied that it has the best material at present. Mr. M. S. Aney : Is it not, therefore, necessary that Government should make a statement modifying the policy suggested by Sir Sikander Hyat Khan ?.

89 PAKISTAN : WEAKENING OF THE DEFENCES Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : Government have no intention whatever of changing their policy in particular. Another interpellation took place on 23rd November 1938 when the question stated below was asked :— Recruitment to the Indian Army from the Central Provinces and Berar* Q. 1402 : Mr. Govind V. Deshmukh : Will the Defence Secretary please state :— (a) The centres in the Central Provinces and Berar for recruiting men for the Indian Army ; (b) The classes from which such men are recruited; (c) The proportion of the men from the C. P. & Berar in the Army to the total strength of the Army, as well as to the population of these provinces ; and (d) The present policy of recruitment, and if it is going to be revised; if not, why not ? Mr. C. M. G. Ogilvie : (a) There are no recruiting centres in the C. P. or Berar. Men residing in the C. P. are in the area of the Recruiting Officer, Delhi, and those of Berar in the area of the Recruiting Officer, Poona. (b) Mahrattas of Berar are recruited as a separate class. Other Hindus and Mussalmans who are recruited from the C. P. and Berar are classified as “Hindus” or “Musalmans”, and are not entered under any class denomination. (c) The proportion to the total strength of the Army is .03 per cent. and the proportion to the total male population of these provinces is .0004 per cent. (d) There is at present no intention of revising the present policy, the reasons for which were stated in my reply to a supplementary question arising out of Mr. Satyamurti’s starred question No. 1060, on the 15th September 1938, and in answer to part (a) of starred question No. 1086 asked by *Legislative Assembly Debates, 1938, Vol. VII, page 3313.

90 DR. BABASAHEB AMBEDKAR : WRITINGS AND SPEECHES Mian Ghulam Kadir Muhammad Shahban on the same date, and in the reply of His Excellency the Commanderin-Chief to the debates in the Council of State on the Honourable Mr. Sushil Kumar Roy Chaudhary’s Resolution regarding military training for Indians on the 21st February 1938 and on the Honourable Mr. P. N. Sapru’s Resolution on the recruitment of all classes to the Indian Army in April 1935. This was followed by an interpellation on 6th February 1939, when the below mentioned question was asked :— Recruitment to the Indian Army* Q. 129: Mr. S. Satyamurti : Will the Defence Secretary be pleased to state: (a) Whether Government have since the last answer on this question reconsidered the question of recruiting to the Indian Army from all provinces and from all castes and communities ; (b) Whether they have come to any conclusion ; (c) Whether Government will categorically state the reasons as to why other provinces and communities are not allowed to serve in the army ; and (d) What are the tests by which they have come to the conclusion that other provinces and other communities than those from whom recruitment is made to the Indian Army to-day cannot come up to the standard of efficiency required of the Indian Army ? Mr. C.M.G. Ogilvie : (a) No. (b) Does not arise. (c) and (d) The reasons have been categorically stated in my replies to starred questions Nos. 1060 and 1086 of 15th September 1938, No. 1162 of 20th September 1938 and No. 1402 of 23rd November 1938 and also in the replies of His Excellency the Commander-in-Chief in the Council of State *Legislative Assembly Debates, 1939, Vol. I, page 253.